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| | | Author: | Ellum  | | Posted: | Feb 27, 2022 04:51 | | Subject: | Why are these terms allowed? | | Viewed: | 238 times | | Topic: | Help | |
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| I found this in a seller og vintage sets terms
What is included and excluded in the sets
We mainly sell complete sets. Sometimes, we also sell a number of parts. When
there is something missing in the set, it is mentioned in the description of
the advertisement. Please note: we only check sets by inventory lists, we do
not build them in general. If so, the set will be send in build condition. This
is always mentioned in the description. However, for some vintage sets, minifigs
have a feather on their hat. In the inventory list is mentioned that each feather
must be there in three sizes. We only add one size of feather: the one that is
actually on the minifig its hat. The other feather sizes are just extra, as they
were sold originally all three bundled together. You do only need the one we
add to have the set complete by building it. Furthermore, in case there is a
horse included in the set, the plate and brick in the same color for "in" the
horse are not included. This is because a saddle is always on the horse. This
plate and brick are not used when playing with the set.
Seller sells complete sets with this in terms. Why is this allowed? I sell vintage
sets as well and will only list a set as complete with the extra parts because
that is bricklink listing policy. This is unfair behaviour from this seller.
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| | | | | Author: | antant7 | | Posted: | Feb 27, 2022 05:41 | | Subject: | Re: Why are these terms allowed? | | Viewed: | 53 times | | Topic: | Help | |
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| I believe BL terms define a set as complete when all parts (or alternates) are
included. Extra parts and box don't have to be included, instructions should
be included unless stated otherwise.
So in this case, would a set be complete if the saddle brick or spare feathers
are missing? That depends entirely on the inventory of the set. If they have
to be included and they are not, the listing can be reported and will probably
be removed.
If a buyer receives a set listed as complete and finds that parts are missing,
an NSS would most likely stand (if it came to that).
Having said all that, vintage sets are a special kind of beast. There is completing
them and there is restoring them. We restore ours, we mention it in the comments
and we price them at the upper price range (or above). Collectors look for those
comments, value them and ask more questions. It gives us a nice feeling too,
knowing that the set goes to a good home.
So is the practice of that store unfair? That depends on who your target customer
is. If they just want a set they had as a child and don't mind it containing
brand new parts or even missing a couple, then yes, maybe. If it's collectors
you are targetting, I wouldn't be too worried about anything other than incorrect
listings.
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| | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Feb 27, 2022 05:57 | | Subject: | Re: Why are these terms allowed? | | Viewed: | 59 times | | Topic: | Help | |
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| In Help, Ellum writes:
| | I found this in a seller og vintage sets terms
What is included and excluded in the sets
We mainly sell complete sets. Sometimes, we also sell a number of parts. When
there is something missing in the set, it is mentioned in the description of
the advertisement. Please note: we only check sets by inventory lists, we do
not build them in general. If so, the set will be send in build condition. This
is always mentioned in the description. However, for some vintage sets, minifigs
have a feather on their hat. In the inventory list is mentioned that each feather
must be there in three sizes. We only add one size of feather: the one that is
actually on the minifig its hat. The other feather sizes are just extra, as they
were sold originally all three bundled together. You do only need the one we
add to have the set complete by building it. Furthermore, in case there is a
horse included in the set, the plate and brick in the same color for "in" the
horse are not included. This is because a saddle is always on the horse. This
plate and brick are not used when playing with the set.
Seller sells complete sets with this in terms. Why is this allowed? I sell vintage
sets as well and will only list a set as complete with the extra parts because
that is bricklink listing policy. This is unfair behaviour from this seller.
|
You're right that's a terms violation:
Complete - Contents are brand new and may have been removed from their plastic
bags and handled for inventorying purposes only. Includes all contents that originally
came with set including extra parts, stickers, instructions (if any) and original
box/packaging.
At the very least the seller should add these comments in the listings themselves
rather than hidden in the terms field.
But as for that terms field in general: BL doesn't care about it or moderate
it, as long as it isn't a US seller who charges PayPal fees (probably under
pressure from PayPal). Just today I was trying to buy a part and couldn't
find a single store (I checked about 10) that offered it without having a legal
violation in their terms. It's 'business as usual' that I just accepted
long ago, but when you think about it that's pretty crazy.
I will keep repeating it: Terms should be abolished and replaced with BL's
own terms plus some multiple choice settings for the seller (that the buyer can
filter on). In other words, BL should look at how BrickOwl does this. This case
is just once again an illustration that that would be much better.
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| | | | | | | Author: | Akir | | Posted: | Feb 27, 2022 06:17 | | Subject: | Re: Why are these terms allowed? | | Viewed: | 57 times | | Topic: | Help | |
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| In Help, Teup writes:
| | In Help, Ellum writes:
| | I found this in a seller og vintage sets terms
What is included and excluded in the sets
We mainly sell complete sets. Sometimes, we also sell a number of parts. When
there is something missing in the set, it is mentioned in the description of
the advertisement. Please note: we only check sets by inventory lists, we do
not build them in general. If so, the set will be send in build condition. This
is always mentioned in the description. However, for some vintage sets, minifigs
have a feather on their hat. In the inventory list is mentioned that each feather
must be there in three sizes. We only add one size of feather: the one that is
actually on the minifig its hat. The other feather sizes are just extra, as they
were sold originally all three bundled together. You do only need the one we
add to have the set complete by building it. Furthermore, in case there is a
horse included in the set, the plate and brick in the same color for "in" the
horse are not included. This is because a saddle is always on the horse. This
plate and brick are not used when playing with the set.
Seller sells complete sets with this in terms. Why is this allowed? I sell vintage
sets as well and will only list a set as complete with the extra parts because
that is bricklink listing policy. This is unfair behaviour from this seller.
|
You're right that's a terms violation:
Complete - Contents are brand new and may have been removed from their plastic
bags and handled for inventorying purposes only. Includes all contents that originally
came with set including extra parts, stickers, instructions (if any) and original
box/packaging.
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Those are the rules for new sets, for used ones they say: "Set contains all parts
necessary to build all of the models (including alternate models) in the instructions
but does not have to contain the original box/packaging and/or extra parts."
https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=102
The thing with the hat feathers is probably debatable, depending on whether the
wheel with the three sizes is included in the main inventory or not; the pieces
to complete the horse were in most cases I remember not part of sets, no idea
why anyone would insist on getting them.
Personally, I would mention missing feathers and/or extra parts in the description,
but terms violation is a strong word imho.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Feb 27, 2022 07:07 | | Subject: | Re: Why are these terms allowed? | | Viewed: | 48 times | | Topic: | Help | |
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| In Help, stearns writes:
| | […]
The thing with the hat feathers is probably debatable, depending on whether the
wheel with the three sizes is included in the main inventory or not;
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Ideally, the “wheel” would be in Regular.
The problem is that one feather has to be in the minifig’s inventory, so the
wheel can’t be in the main inventory.
But as the wheel should be in Regular, all the feathers are.
So the two unused feathers are in Regular but they are not necessary for a Used
set to be complete.
(Unless they are shown used somewhere in the instructions or on the box, in alternate
models.)
| | the pieces
to complete the horse were in most cases I remember not part of sets, no idea
why anyone would insist on getting them.
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According to the rules, if the horses are shown with the bricks / without the
saddles somewhere in the instructions or on the box, then the bricks should be
included in a Used set.
| | Personally, I would mention missing feathers and/or extra parts in the description,
but terms violation is a strong word imho.
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| | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Feb 27, 2022 07:57 | | Subject: | Re: Why are these terms allowed? | | Viewed: | 46 times | | Topic: | Help | |
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| In Help, Teup writes:
| | In Help, Ellum writes:
| | I found this in a seller og vintage sets terms
What is included and excluded in the sets
We mainly sell complete sets. Sometimes, we also sell a number of parts. When
there is something missing in the set, it is mentioned in the description of
the advertisement. Please note: we only check sets by inventory lists, we do
not build them in general. If so, the set will be send in build condition. This
is always mentioned in the description. However, for some vintage sets, minifigs
have a feather on their hat. In the inventory list is mentioned that each feather
must be there in three sizes. We only add one size of feather: the one that is
actually on the minifig its hat. The other feather sizes are just extra, as they
were sold originally all three bundled together. You do only need the one we
add to have the set complete by building it. Furthermore, in case there is a
horse included in the set, the plate and brick in the same color for "in" the
horse are not included. This is because a saddle is always on the horse. This
plate and brick are not used when playing with the set.
Seller sells complete sets with this in terms. Why is this allowed? I sell vintage
sets as well and will only list a set as complete with the extra parts because
that is bricklink listing policy. This is unfair behaviour from this seller.
|
You're right that's a terms violation:
Complete - Contents are brand new and may have been removed from their plastic
bags and handled for inventorying purposes only. Includes all contents that originally
came with set including extra parts, stickers, instructions (if any) and original
box/packaging.
At the very least the seller should add these comments in the listings themselves
rather than hidden in the terms field.
But as for that terms field in general: BL doesn't care about it or moderate
it, as long as it isn't a US seller who charges PayPal fees (probably under
pressure from PayPal). Just today I was trying to buy a part and couldn't
find a single store (I checked about 10) that offered it without having a legal
violation in their terms. It's 'business as usual' that I just accepted
long ago, but when you think about it that's pretty crazy.
I will keep repeating it: Terms should be abolished and replaced with BL's
own terms plus some multiple choice settings for the seller (that the buyer can
filter on). In other words, BL should look at how BrickOwl does this. This case
is just once again an illustration that that would be much better.
|
BLs terms are that for complete used sets, you only need to supply what is required
to build the main set and any alternative builds. You do not have to supply everything
in the inventory. Russell has confirmed this in the past.
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| | | | | Author: | peregrinator | | Posted: | Feb 27, 2022 06:56 | | Subject: | Re: Why are these terms allowed? | | Viewed: | 40 times | | Topic: | Help | |
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| In Help, Ellum writes:
| | Seller sells complete sets with this in terms. Why is this allowed? I sell vintage
sets as well and will only list a set as complete with the extra parts because
that is bricklink listing policy. This is unfair behaviour from this seller.
|
That is not BrickLink listing policy for Used Complete sets. This is the
actual policy [my emphasis]:
"Set contains all parts necessary to build all of the models (including alternate
models) in the instructions but does not have to contain the original box/packaging
and/or extra parts. If the set is missing instructions, the description
must state so. If the set did not come with instructions then the set should
include all parts listed in the picture inventory which is located on the box
or bucket. The set must include all original stickers used on the model either
still on the sticker sheet or applied."
https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=102
I think the parts necessary to complete a horse are debatable (I don't know
what's in the actual instructions), but the extra feathers and sprue "wheel"
definitely aren't necessary for completeness.
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| | | | | | | Author: | Ellum | | Posted: | Feb 27, 2022 08:31 | | Subject: | Re: Why are these terms allowed? | | Viewed: | 34 times | | Topic: | Help | |
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| In Help, peregrinator writes:
| | In Help, Ellum writes:
| | Seller sells complete sets with this in terms. Why is this allowed? I sell vintage
sets as well and will only list a set as complete with the extra parts because
that is bricklink listing policy. This is unfair behaviour from this seller.
|
That is not BrickLink listing policy for Used Complete sets. This is the
actual policy [my emphasis]:
"Set contains all parts necessary to build all of the models (including alternate
models) in the instructions but does not have to contain the original box/packaging
and/or extra parts. If the set is missing instructions, the description
must state so. If the set did not come with instructions then the set should
include all parts listed in the picture inventory which is located on the box
or bucket. The set must include all original stickers used on the model either
still on the sticker sheet or applied."
https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=102
I think the parts necessary to complete a horse are debatable (I don't know
what's in the actual instructions), but the extra feathers and sprue "wheel"
definitely aren't necessary for completeness.
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Ok I thought since the feathers for instance are part of the regular inventory
here on BL they are not to be considered extra parts and if they were why are
they listed as regular and not exra parts?
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | peregrinator | | Posted: | Feb 27, 2022 08:39 | | Subject: | Re: Why are these terms allowed? | | Viewed: | 51 times | | Topic: | Help | |
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| In Help, Ellum writes:
| | Ok I thought since the feathers for instance are part of the regular inventory
here on BL they are not to be considered extra parts and if they were why are
they listed as regular and not exra parts?
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There's a technical issue with listing them as extra, as I understand it.
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| | | | | Author: | cosmicray | | Posted: | Feb 27, 2022 07:53 | | Subject: | Re: Why are these terms allowed? | | Viewed: | 40 times | | Topic: | Help | |
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| In Help, Ellum writes:
| | I found this in a seller og vintage sets terms
What is included and excluded in the sets
We mainly sell complete sets. Sometimes, we also sell a number of parts. When
there is something missing in the set, it is mentioned in the description of
the advertisement. Please note: we only check sets by inventory lists, we do
not build them in general. If so, the set will be send in build condition. This
is always mentioned in the description. However, for some vintage sets, minifigs
have a feather on their hat. In the inventory list is mentioned that each feather
must be there in three sizes. We only add one size of feather: the one that is
actually on the minifig its hat. The other feather sizes are just extra, as they
were sold originally all three bundled together. You do only need the one we
add to have the set complete by building it. Furthermore, in case there is a
horse included in the set, the plate and brick in the same color for "in" the
horse are not included. This is because a saddle is always on the horse. This
plate and brick are not used when playing with the set.
Seller sells complete sets with this in terms. Why is this allowed? I sell vintage
sets as well and will only list a set as complete with the extra parts because
that is bricklink listing policy. This is unfair behaviour from this seller.
|
This is somewhat of an orthogonal question, but related to this ...
What happens, when a seller lists a set (with included minifigs per inventory)
and then later the inventory of the minifig changes ?
The seller listed the set, and the completeness of the minifig was included by
reference. The seller did not list the minifig per se.
Can the buyer then claim the minifig, and by reference the set, was incomplete
?
Nita Rae
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| | | | | | | Author: | peregrinator | | Posted: | Feb 27, 2022 07:57 | | Subject: | Re: Why are these terms allowed? | | Viewed: | 40 times | | Topic: | Help | |
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| In Help, cosmicray writes:
| | This is somewhat of an orthogonal question, but related to this ...
What happens, when a seller lists a set (with included minifigs per inventory)
and then later the inventory of the minifig changes ?
The seller listed the set, and the completeness of the minifig was included by
reference. The seller did not list the minifig per se.
Can the buyer then claim the minifig, and by reference the set, was incomplete
?
|
This is one reason why I think it's at least debatable whether the parts
needed to "complete" the horse are unnecessary. We would not say, for example,
that minifig hair is unnecessary even if the minifigure is pictured on the box
and in the instructions as wearing a helmet (and is inventoried that way on BL).
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | paulvdb | | Posted: | Feb 27, 2022 08:12 | | Subject: | Re: Why are these terms allowed? | | Viewed: | 41 times | | Topic: | Help | |
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| In Help, peregrinator writes:
| | In Help, cosmicray writes:
| | This is somewhat of an orthogonal question, but related to this ...
What happens, when a seller lists a set (with included minifigs per inventory)
and then later the inventory of the minifig changes ?
The seller listed the set, and the completeness of the minifig was included by
reference. The seller did not list the minifig per se.
Can the buyer then claim the minifig, and by reference the set, was incomplete
?
|
This is one reason why I think it's at least debatable whether the parts
needed to "complete" the horse are unnecessary. We would not say, for example,
that minifig hair is unnecessary even if the minifigure is pictured on the box
and in the instructions as wearing a helmet (and is inventoried that way on BL).
|
According to the listing policy a used complete set needs to contain all parts
needed to build all of the models (including alternate models) in the instructions.
I checked a few sets and instructions for them show horses both with saddlea
(or hitches for carts) and the bricks and plates that are used when the horse
is used without the saddle or hitch. So those horse bricks should be included
in a complete used set.
In the cases where both hair and a helmet are included for the minifigure the
instructions also always show both, so in order for the set to be complete the
helmet and hair should both be included.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | legoman77 | | Posted: | Feb 27, 2022 11:36 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 25 times | | Topic: | Help | |
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| | (Cancelled) |
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | legoman77 | | Posted: | Feb 27, 2022 11:36 | | Subject: | Re: Why are these terms allowed? | | Viewed: | 56 times | | Topic: | Help | |
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| In Help, paulvdb writes:
| | In Help, peregrinator writes:
| | In Help, cosmicray writes:
| | This is somewhat of an orthogonal question, but related to this ...
What happens, when a seller lists a set (with included minifigs per inventory)
and then later the inventory of the minifig changes ?
The seller listed the set, and the completeness of the minifig was included by
reference. The seller did not list the minifig per se.
Can the buyer then claim the minifig, and by reference the set, was incomplete
?
|
This is one reason why I think it's at least debatable whether the parts
needed to "complete" the horse are unnecessary. We would not say, for example,
that minifig hair is unnecessary even if the minifigure is pictured on the box
and in the instructions as wearing a helmet (and is inventoried that way on BL).
|
According to the listing policy a used complete set needs to contain all parts
needed to build all of the models (including alternate models) in the instructions.
I checked a few sets and instructions for them show horses both with saddlea
(or hitches for carts) and the bricks and plates that are used when the horse
is used without the saddle or hitch. So those horse bricks should be included
in a complete used set.
In the cases where both hair and a helmet are included for the minifigure the
instructions also always show both, so in order for the set to be complete the
helmet and hair should both be included.
|
Agree 100%. They are in the directions so must be included. I sold a lot of
vintage castle and forest men sets (or should I say forest people?) The extra
stuff was always included except for the spews.
Common sense says the extra bricks should be included. Horse do not eat with
saddles on. So, if you want your horses to be healthy and eat regularly you
need the brick.
John P
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| | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Feb 27, 2022 08:03 | | Subject: | Re: Why are these terms allowed? | | Viewed: | 50 times | | Topic: | Help | |
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| In Help, Ellum writes:
| | I found this in a seller og vintage sets terms
What is included and excluded in the sets
We mainly sell complete sets. Sometimes, we also sell a number of parts. When
there is something missing in the set, it is mentioned in the description of
the advertisement. Please note: we only check sets by inventory lists, we do
not build them in general. If so, the set will be send in build condition. This
is always mentioned in the description. However, for some vintage sets, minifigs
have a feather on their hat. In the inventory list is mentioned that each feather
must be there in three sizes. We only add one size of feather: the one that is
actually on the minifig its hat. The other feather sizes are just extra, as they
were sold originally all three bundled together. You do only need the one we
add to have the set complete by building it. Furthermore, in case there is a
horse included in the set, the plate and brick in the same color for "in" the
horse are not included. This is because a saddle is always on the horse. This
plate and brick are not used when playing with the set.
Seller sells complete sets with this in terms. Why is this allowed? I sell vintage
sets as well and will only list a set as complete with the extra parts because
that is bricklink listing policy. This is unfair behaviour from this seller.
|
https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1141828
Here is Russell's statement on it.
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| | | | | | | Author: | Ellum | | Posted: | Feb 27, 2022 08:34 | | Subject: | Re: Why are these terms allowed? | | Viewed: | 31 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, yorbrick writes:
| | In Help, Ellum writes:
| | I found this in a seller og vintage sets terms
What is included and excluded in the sets
We mainly sell complete sets. Sometimes, we also sell a number of parts. When
there is something missing in the set, it is mentioned in the description of
the advertisement. Please note: we only check sets by inventory lists, we do
not build them in general. If so, the set will be send in build condition. This
is always mentioned in the description. However, for some vintage sets, minifigs
have a feather on their hat. In the inventory list is mentioned that each feather
must be there in three sizes. We only add one size of feather: the one that is
actually on the minifig its hat. The other feather sizes are just extra, as they
were sold originally all three bundled together. You do only need the one we
add to have the set complete by building it. Furthermore, in case there is a
horse included in the set, the plate and brick in the same color for "in" the
horse are not included. This is because a saddle is always on the horse. This
plate and brick are not used when playing with the set.
Seller sells complete sets with this in terms. Why is this allowed? I sell vintage
sets as well and will only list a set as complete with the extra parts because
that is bricklink listing policy. This is unfair behaviour from this seller.
|
https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1141828
Here is Russell's statement on it.
|
Thank you. Can see he writes that inventories are not to be considered the standard
for listings. I will take this into account for my future selling practices.
|
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | jennnifer | | Posted: | Feb 27, 2022 09:44 | | Subject: | Re: Why are these terms allowed? | | Viewed: | 49 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, Ellum writes:
| | In Help, yorbrick writes:
| | In Help, Ellum writes:
| | I found this in a seller og vintage sets terms
What is included and excluded in the sets
We mainly sell complete sets. Sometimes, we also sell a number of parts. When
there is something missing in the set, it is mentioned in the description of
the advertisement. Please note: we only check sets by inventory lists, we do
not build them in general. If so, the set will be send in build condition. This
is always mentioned in the description. However, for some vintage sets, minifigs
have a feather on their hat. In the inventory list is mentioned that each feather
must be there in three sizes. We only add one size of feather: the one that is
actually on the minifig its hat. The other feather sizes are just extra, as they
were sold originally all three bundled together. You do only need the one we
add to have the set complete by building it. Furthermore, in case there is a
horse included in the set, the plate and brick in the same color for "in" the
horse are not included. This is because a saddle is always on the horse. This
plate and brick are not used when playing with the set.
Seller sells complete sets with this in terms. Why is this allowed? I sell vintage
sets as well and will only list a set as complete with the extra parts because
that is bricklink listing policy. This is unfair behaviour from this seller.
|
https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1141828
Here is Russell's statement on it.
|
Thank you. Can see he writes that inventories are not to be considered the standard
for listings. I will take this into account for my future selling practices.
|
Inventories on BrickLink are meant to reflect the contents of New sealed sets.
A Used set has different parameters as many items will have been fundamentally
changed by being built: sprues, stickers, parts assemblies not easily separated,
etc. That's why the guidelines for Used sets are fairly generic: 'all
parts necessary to build all of the models.'
Jen
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Denmark
Netherlands, Utrecht
Austria, Steiermark
France, Nouvelle-Aquitaine
United Kingdom, England
USA, New Jersey
