Discussion Forum: Thread 307130

 Author: StickyBrickit View Messages Posted By StickyBrickit
 Posted: Jul 28, 2021 06:47
 Subject: Lego Resellers vs. The AFOL Community
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StickyBrickit (112)

Location:  United Kingdom, England
Member Since Contact Type Status
Sep 28, 2017 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: StickyBrickit
I'm part of several non-BL Lego groups such as some of the FaceBook AFOL
groups plus some groups that are local to me (in the UK). I've noticed that
there is a range of opinions on people who sell / resell Lego and that (strangely,
IMO) some opinions can be vehemently negative. This can range from the odd comment
about how resellers are missing the "point" of Lego (i.e. it's a toy, it
shouldn't be resold for profit) to some downright nasty comments about me
being a "scalping scumbag" and that I'm "ruining the hobby, driving up prices,
taking food out of children's mouths" etc (not kidding about that last one!)

Tbh I'm never that bothered about any negativity as I'm sure you get
it everywhere, but I do think it's strange in that I guess people just misunderstand
how the market works. I can only set my own prices and not the general market
value, so if I overprice my Lego it won't sell, and if I underprice it then
I wouldn't make any money so there would be less Lego available (as I'd
be out of the market).

I guess Lego does retain it's value well when resold so maybe people are
angry about this, but I don't know of any resellers that are raking it in
at other people's expenses. In fact for the hours we put in I'd say we
generally don't get paid all that well. Especially when I put in extra time
for customer service (making sure we're good/very good at all aspects of
what we do, it takes extra time for which we don't actually get paid).

Just wondering if anyone else has come across this sort of negativity and accusation
that we're all driving up prices and making Lego unaffordable for most people
(I'd actually argue the opposite is the case as we provide an alternative
to buying from Lego themselves who would basically have a monopoly if resellers
didn't exist!)
 Author: LegoLDK View Messages Posted By LegoLDK
 Posted: Jul 28, 2021 07:00
 Subject: Re: Lego Resellers vs. The AFOL Community
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LegoLDK (21)

Location:  United Kingdom, England
Member Since Contact Type Status
Nov 13, 2020 Contact Member Buyer
Buying Privileges - OK
In Announce, StickyBrickit writes:
  Just wondering if anyone else has come across this sort of negativity and accusation
that we're all driving up prices and making Lego unaffordable for most people

Just look at the reaction to the failed designer programme launch for your answer.
A number of those who didn't secure their beloved castle set ranted that
"scalpers" had hoovered up the sets to resell at a profit. An interesting accusation
to post on a site dedicated to buying Lego from resellers. When does Bricklinking
become scalping? It would appear when the seller is selling something the buyer
wants for more than the buyer expected to pay.

Since being on here I've got the impression that what started as a site for
hobby buyers from hobby sellers is being increasingly used by those looking to
make a living from Lego selling. Maybe that's what's driving the angst,
hobby players upset at the commercialism of the toy, rare sets, quick sell outs
of new sets, increasing prices of popular classic sets etc.

Once the pandemic is truly over I'm sure there will be many closures of recently
opened stores and "normality" will resume.
 Author: cosmicray View Messages Posted By cosmicray
 Posted: Jul 28, 2021 10:33
 Subject: Re: Lego Resellers vs. The AFOL Community
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cosmicray (3207)

Location:  USA, Florida
Member Since Contact Type Status Collage
Oct 1, 2000 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
View Collage Pic
Store: Cosmic Toys
In Announce, StickyBrickit writes:
  Just wondering if anyone else has come across this sort of negativity and accusation
that we're all driving up prices and making Lego unaffordable for most people
(I'd actually argue the opposite is the case as we provide an alternative
to buying from Lego themselves who would basically have a monopoly if resellers
didn't exist!)

There are a significant number of reasons, for the situation we are in, and it
isn't a simple story. I've been around for ~22 years, and it is a business
I never planned or expected to be involved with. It just happened.

The story goes back to 1999. I had been doing IT (which was better described
as a systems analyst / code monkey) for ~25 years, and I burned out. When I was
growing up, there was no LEGO in my house. I have a tube of ELGO blocks and Lincoln
logs, and that was about it. I decided the time had arrived that I wanted to
build a LEGO set, and the one I wanted was 8480-1 (the big Technic Space Shuttle).
The store I expected to have it in stock, the nearest TRU, was sold out. But
they looked on the computer and said another store, 90 miles up the Interstate
showed they had one. So I drove up to that store ... they had two ... on clearance
! The manager told me if I bought both, he would improve the clearance price.
So I bought them, and it's been a long journey I never expected.

Over the next 10 years, I discovered every retailer that sold LEGO, within a
200-250 mile radius. I learned which stores it sold well, and which ones almost
always ended up with stock they had to clearance. Some of the deals were exceptionally
good. Then, around 2009/2010, the deals began to vanish. by that point I had
accumulated a significant inventory. Lest anyone think I was sitting behind a
keyboard doing this, nothing of the kind. There were days I left at 7 AM, watching
the moon setting in one direction, and got home at 2 AM, after watching the moon
rise on the other side. Some very long days, with lots of miles driven. The toys
were sitting in all those stores, just waiting for anyone to walk in and buy
them. There were even a few instances, where the stores had so much to move,
they still had product back in the stock room, still in original packing boxes.
They were all happy to see it sold. Probably less than 1% of the inventory I
ever obtained came thru the internet.

What happened in 2009/2010 had to do with the US housing collapse. People who
had been flipping houses (and watched that come to an abrupt halt), many moved
into flipping LEGO. Those people were buying clearance LEGO at lesser markdowns
(that I had been ignoring). Then various LEGO movies came out. Each LEGO, Star
Wars, or Harry Potter, movie caused demand for associated LEGO themed sets. The
flippers saw that they could command higher prices, and eventually they began
buying certain sets at (or close to) MSRP, purely for price appreciation. I never
did that. I used to cruise various TRU stores, staring at the overstock shelves
(up high). When I spotted something that should have been clearanced, I asked
an associate to get a ladder and check it. They were used to me, and knew I was
a good customer, and besides I was helping them do inventory control (they they
were not doing). I snagged a few real deals that way.

As we moved thru the 2010s, I noticed something new ... that customers were (occasionally)
desperate for a specific item, and price was not an issue. I also began running
into drop-shippers, who were listing my inventory, and expecting me to fulfill
their orders. I watched Amazon grow, sold a little there, and decided it wasn't
my cup of tea.

What I have learned, is that LEGO had poor channel control (back in the beginning).
Over the years, they learned how to manage their channel much better. I also
watched various retailers (K-mart, TRU, KB Toys, etc) roll over and give up.
Retail is a tricky business. If you don't execute well, might as well close
the doors. The internet, and more recently the pandemic, has changed everything
about selling LEGO.

Peace.

Nita Rae
 Author: popsicle View Messages Posted By popsicle
 Posted: Jul 28, 2021 10:51
 Subject: Re: Lego Resellers vs. The AFOL Community
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popsicle (6045)

Location:  USA, Washington
Member Since Contact Type Status
Feb 21, 2006 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store Closed Store: ConstrucToys
In Announce, cosmicray writes:
  In Announce, StickyBrickit writes:
  Just wondering if anyone else has come across this sort of negativity and accusation
that we're all driving up prices and making Lego unaffordable for most people
(I'd actually argue the opposite is the case as we provide an alternative
to buying from Lego themselves who would basically have a monopoly if resellers
didn't exist!)

There are a significant number of reasons, for the situation we are in, and it
isn't a simple story. I've been around for ~22 years, and it is a business
I never planned or expected to be involved with. It just happened.

The story goes back to 1999. I had been doing IT (which was better described
as a systems analyst / code monkey) for ~25 years, and I burned out. When I was
growing up, there was no LEGO in my house. I have a tube of ELGO blocks and Lincoln
logs, and that was about it. I decided the time had arrived that I wanted to
build a LEGO set, and the one I wanted was 8480-1 (the big Technic Space Shuttle).
The store I expected to have it in stock, the nearest TRU, was sold out. But
they looked on the computer and said another store, 90 miles up the Interstate
showed they had one. So I drove up to that store ... they had two ... on clearance
! The manager told me if I bought both, he would improve the clearance price.
So I bought them, and it's been a long journey I never expected.

Over the next 10 years, I discovered every retailer that sold LEGO, within a
200-250 mile radius. I learned which stores it sold well, and which ones almost
always ended up with stock they had to clearance. Some of the deals were exceptionally
good. Then, around 2009/2010, the deals began to vanish. by that point I had
accumulated a significant inventory. Lest anyone think I was sitting behind a
keyboard doing this, nothing of the kind. There were days I left at 7 AM, watching
the moon setting in one direction, and got home at 2 AM, after watching the moon
rise on the other side. Some very long days, with lots of miles driven. The toys
were sitting in all those stores, just waiting for anyone to walk in and buy
them. There were even a few instances, where the stores had so much to move,
they still had product back in the stock room, still in original packing boxes.
They were all happy to see it sold. Probably less than 1% of the inventory I
ever obtained came thru the internet.

What happened in 2009/2010 had to do with the US housing collapse. People who
had been flipping houses (and watched that come to an abrupt halt), many moved
into flipping LEGO. Those people were buying clearance LEGO at lesser markdowns
(that I had been ignoring). Then various LEGO movies came out. Each LEGO, Star
Wars, or Harry Potter, movie caused demand for associated LEGO themed sets. The
flippers saw that they could command higher prices, and eventually they began
buying certain sets at (or close to) MSRP, purely for price appreciation. I never
did that. I used to cruise various TRU stores, staring at the overstock shelves
(up high). When I spotted something that should have been clearanced, I asked
an associate to get a ladder and check it. They were used to me, and knew I was
a good customer, and besides I was helping them do inventory control (they they
were not doing). I snagged a few real deals that way.

As we moved thru the 2010s, I noticed something new ... that customers were (occasionally)
desperate for a specific item, and price was not an issue. I also began running
into drop-shippers, who were listing my inventory, and expecting me to fulfill
their orders. I watched Amazon grow, sold a little there, and decided it wasn't
my cup of tea.

What I have learned, is that LEGO had poor channel control (back in the beginning).
Over the years, they learned how to manage their channel much better. I also
watched various retailers (K-mart, TRU, KB Toys, etc) roll over and give up.
Retail is a tricky business. If you don't execute well, might as well close
the doors. The internet, and more recently the pandemic, has changed everything
about selling LEGO.

Peace.

Nita Rae

Good read. Thanks
 Author: psusaxman2000 View Messages Posted By psusaxman2000
 Posted: Jul 28, 2021 11:08
 Subject: Re: Lego Resellers vs. The AFOL Community
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psusaxman2000 (163)

Location:  USA, Pennsylvania
Member Since Contact Type Status
Apr 19, 2020 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store Closed Store: Bricktopulous
In Announce, StickyBrickit writes:
  I'm part of several non-BL Lego groups such as some of the FaceBook AFOL
groups plus some groups that are local to me (in the UK). I've noticed that
there is a range of opinions on people who sell / resell Lego and that (strangely,
IMO) some opinions can be vehemently negative. This can range from the odd comment
about how resellers are missing the "point" of Lego (i.e. it's a toy, it
shouldn't be resold for profit) to some downright nasty comments about me
being a "scalping scumbag" and that I'm "ruining the hobby, driving up prices,
taking food out of children's mouths" etc (not kidding about that last one!)

Tbh I'm never that bothered about any negativity as I'm sure you get
it everywhere, but I do think it's strange in that I guess people just misunderstand
how the market works. I can only set my own prices and not the general market
value, so if I overprice my Lego it won't sell, and if I underprice it then
I wouldn't make any money so there would be less Lego available (as I'd
be out of the market).

I guess Lego does retain it's value well when resold so maybe people are
angry about this, but I don't know of any resellers that are raking it in
at other people's expenses. In fact for the hours we put in I'd say we
generally don't get paid all that well. Especially when I put in extra time
for customer service (making sure we're good/very good at all aspects of
what we do, it takes extra time for which we don't actually get paid).

Just wondering if anyone else has come across this sort of negativity and accusation
that we're all driving up prices and making Lego unaffordable for most people
(I'd actually argue the opposite is the case as we provide an alternative
to buying from Lego themselves who would basically have a monopoly if resellers
didn't exist!)

I've only been part of this community for about 1.5 years and joined here
when I personally dove back into the LEGO community during the pandemic. I grew
up with Lego in my home and was always happy to have a new set (new to me personally)
for a holiday, birthday or whatever. As an adult now with a child, I'm
happy to be able to provide the same experiences for my daughter as she has grown
to love and enjoy a toy as much as I still do and we get to enjoy this hobby
together. What I've found recently is that there is a lot of animosity when
people tend to not get or find what they want. To me it sometimes feels like
a sense of entitlement and not realizing that you can't always get what you
want. Are there individuals that try to take advantage of the system, yes, always,
but the majority of the time, that's not the case.

I never joined this community with the intent of becoming a seller. I raided
my old collection that was still at my parents house trying to clean up space
and handing some down to my niece and nephew. In reviewing all these sets I
found that I had missing parts and that's when BL came into my life. From
there it was a matter of collecting the missing parts and reliving my childhood
over again. I found that I had extras and in collecting from some local yard
sales I just use BL to supplement my ability to purchase new sets for myself
and my daughter.

Over this time, I have similar interactions to the ones you've called out,
and at this point just come to realized that with any other social media type
thing, there are always both sides to each community and they will make themselves
loud and clear when they don't like something. To me it's just a byproduct
of the time and when they don't get what they want it will always come out.
Case and point is the BL Designer Program.
 Author: firestar246 View Messages Posted By firestar246
 Posted: Jul 28, 2021 11:20
 Subject: Re: Lego Resellers vs. The AFOL Community
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firestar246 (7862)

Location:  USA, Missouri
Member Since Contact Type Status
Jan 12, 2016 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: Tons of Bricks (GDM)
In Announce, psusaxman2000 writes:

  
What I've found recently is that there is a lot of animosity when
people tend to not get or find what they want. To me it sometimes feels like
a sense of entitlement and not realizing that you can't always get what you
want.

That's the big issue right there, at least in my opinion.


People don't seem to understand the importance of profit anymore. They think
that if someone buys something to resell it at a higher value, that they are
cheaters, scammers, scalpers. They don't seem to understand that profit is
needed for a business to survive.
 Author: psusaxman2000 View Messages Posted By psusaxman2000
 Posted: Jul 28, 2021 11:44
 Subject: Re: Lego Resellers vs. The AFOL Community
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psusaxman2000 (163)

Location:  USA, Pennsylvania
Member Since Contact Type Status
Apr 19, 2020 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store Closed Store: Bricktopulous
In Announce, firestar246 writes:
  In Announce, psusaxman2000 writes:

  
What I've found recently is that there is a lot of animosity when
people tend to not get or find what they want. To me it sometimes feels like
a sense of entitlement and not realizing that you can't always get what you
want.

That's the big issue right there, at least in my opinion.


People don't seem to understand the importance of profit anymore. They think
that if someone buys something to resell it at a higher value, that they are
cheaters, scammers, scalpers. They don't seem to understand that profit is
needed for a business to survive.

Agreed. And that profit has different layers as well. Some only us it to reinvest
(myself) and some use it for business and lively hood. There will always be
a small margin of individuals that try to take advantage of any system, time,
pandemic, crisis or whatever. Look at what happened to toilet paper, masks and
hand sanitizer just a year ago. You'll never be able to weed them all out,
but you can't just blame an entire community for the actions of a few.
 Author: calebfishn View Messages Posted By calebfishn
 Posted: Jul 28, 2021 14:54
 Subject: Re: Lego Resellers vs. The AFOL Community
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calebfishn (1776)

Location:  Canada, Ontario
Member Since Contact Type Status
Feb 17, 2009 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: Barbie's Brick Store
In Announce, firestar246 writes:
  In Announce, psusaxman2000 writes:

  
What I've found recently is that there is a lot of animosity when
people tend to not get or find what they want. To me it sometimes feels like
a sense of entitlement and not realizing that you can't always get what you
want.

That's the big issue right there, at least in my opinion.


People don't seem to understand the importance of profit anymore. They think
that if someone buys something to resell it at a higher value, that they are
cheaters, scammers, scalpers. They don't seem to understand that profit is
needed for a business to survive.

Profit is not only needed for the survival of an individual business, it is essential
for making any type of consumer good dependably available and affordable. Just
think about Soviet Russia in the 1970's where people lined up for hours hoping
to find a loaf of bread and a bottle of vodka on the grocery store shelves. Without
incentive, people are not going to work at making consumer goods available and
affordable. Without the ability to profit from their work, Bricklink sellers
would not be spending hours sourcing, sorting, and listing parts for the AFOL
community to purchase. The variety of parts and sets available on Bricklink would
be much less and pricing would be variable and unpredictable.

For those who think that profit is immoral when it comes from selling toys, let's
all be thankful that Lego doesn't think that way, or we'd have no lego
at all.
 Author: firestar246 View Messages Posted By firestar246
 Posted: Jul 28, 2021 15:03
 Subject: Re: Lego Resellers vs. The AFOL Community
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firestar246 (7862)

Location:  USA, Missouri
Member Since Contact Type Status
Jan 12, 2016 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: Tons of Bricks (GDM)
In Announce, calebfishn writes:

  
Profit is not only needed for the survival of an individual business, it is essential
for making any type of consumer good dependably available and affordable. Just
think about Soviet Russia in the 1970's where people lined up for hours hoping
to find a loaf of bread and a bottle of vodka on the grocery store shelves. Without
incentive, people are not going to work at making consumer goods available and
affordable. Without the ability to profit from their work, Bricklink sellers
would not be spending hours sourcing, sorting, and listing parts for the AFOL
community to purchase. The variety of parts and sets available on Bricklink would
be much less and pricing would be variable and unpredictable.

For those who think that profit is immoral when it comes from selling toys, let's
all be thankful that Lego doesn't think that way, or we'd have no lego
at all.

This is what I like about (most) of the sellers here: they actually have a head
on their shoulders and a brain in it. You hit the nail on the head.
 Author: Eli_n_Me View Messages Posted By Eli_n_Me
 Posted: Jul 28, 2021 20:16
 Subject: Re: Lego Resellers vs. The AFOL Community
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Eli_n_Me (3)

Location:  USA, Maryland
Member Since Contact Type Status
Apr 9, 2018 Contact Member Buyer
Buying Privileges - OK
Couldnt agreemore to most of this thread.


In Announce, firestar246 writes:
  In Announce, calebfishn writes:

  
Profit is not only needed for the survival of an individual business, it is essential
for making any type of consumer good dependably available and affordable. Just
think about Soviet Russia in the 1970's where people lined up for hours hoping
to find a loaf of bread and a bottle of vodka on the grocery store shelves. Without
incentive, people are not going to work at making consumer goods available and
affordable. Without the ability to profit from their work, Bricklink sellers
would not be spending hours sourcing, sorting, and listing parts for the AFOL
community to purchase. The variety of parts and sets available on Bricklink would
be much less and pricing would be variable and unpredictable.

For those who think that profit is immoral when it comes from selling toys, let's
all be thankful that Lego doesn't think that way, or we'd have no lego
at all.

This is what I like about (most) of the sellers here: they actually have a head
on their shoulders and a brain in it. You hit the nail on the head.
 Author: patpendlego View Messages Posted By patpendlego
 Posted: Jul 28, 2021 15:06
 Subject: Re: Lego Resellers vs. The AFOL Community
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patpendlego (3782)

Location:  Netherlands, Overijssel
Member Since Contact Type Status
Aug 11, 2006 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: Leggodt.nl
In Announce, firestar246 writes:
  In Announce, psusaxman2000 writes:

  
What I've found recently is that there is a lot of animosity when
people tend to not get or find what they want. To me it sometimes feels like
a sense of entitlement and not realizing that you can't always get what you
want.

That's the big issue right there, at least in my opinion.


People don't seem to understand the importance of profit anymore. They think
that if someone buys something to resell it at a higher value, that they are
cheaters, scammers, scalpers. They don't seem to understand that profit is
needed for a business to survive.

Yes, and that same profit is killing our planet. Because all profit eventually
is made on natural resoources taken from our planet at low or no cost at all,
harming nature, killing woods, animals, plants, etc.

Buiness may survice on profit, our planet is not.
 Author: firestar246 View Messages Posted By firestar246
 Posted: Jul 28, 2021 15:17
 Subject: Re: Lego Resellers vs. The AFOL Community
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firestar246 (7862)

Location:  USA, Missouri
Member Since Contact Type Status
Jan 12, 2016 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: Tons of Bricks (GDM)
In Announce, patpendlego writes:

  
Yes, and that same profit is killing our planet. Because all profit eventually
is made on natural resoources taken from our planet at low or no cost at all,
harming nature, killing woods, animals, plants, etc.

Buiness may survice on profit, our planet is not.

Don't want to get into this hornets nest, but just want to point out that
every item you mentioned is a renewable resource and are being renewed. It doesn't
help out a lumber company if they destroy all the trees, as that would then end
their business pretty quickly. So the good companies will make sure they don't
just destroy, but rather harvest and replenish.
 Author: patpendlego View Messages Posted By patpendlego
 Posted: Jul 28, 2021 15:24
 Subject: Re: Lego Resellers vs. The AFOL Community
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patpendlego (3782)

Location:  Netherlands, Overijssel
Member Since Contact Type Status
Aug 11, 2006 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: Leggodt.nl
In Announce, firestar246 writes:
  In Announce, patpendlego writes:

  
Yes, and that same profit is killing our planet. Because all profit eventually
is made on natural resoources taken from our planet at low or no cost at all,
harming nature, killing woods, animals, plants, etc.

Buiness may survice on profit, our planet is not.

Don't want to get into this hornets nest, but just want to point out that
every item you mentioned is a renewable resource and are being renewed. It doesn't
help out a lumber company if they destroy all the trees,

But that is exactly what is happening! The rainforests are largly gone and NOT
renewable anymore, only and only for short term profit.

as that would then end
  their business pretty quickly. So the good companies will make sure they don't
just destroy, but rather harvest and replenish.

Every company must first make profit before they can renew what they used, and
no company has ever renewed ALL or even MORE than they destroyed. There is no
perpetual mobile.
 Author: popsicle View Messages Posted By popsicle
 Posted: Jul 28, 2021 16:06
 Subject: Re: Lego Resellers vs. The AFOL Community
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popsicle (6045)

Location:  USA, Washington
Member Since Contact Type Status
Feb 21, 2006 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store Closed Store: ConstrucToys
In Announce, patpendlego writes:
  In Announce, firestar246 writes:
  In Announce, patpendlego writes:

  
Yes, and that same profit is killing our planet. Because all profit eventually
is made on natural resoources taken from our planet at low or no cost at all,
harming nature, killing woods, animals, plants, etc.

Buiness may survice on profit, our planet is not.

Don't want to get into this hornets nest, but just want to point out that
every item you mentioned is a renewable resource and are being renewed. It doesn't
help out a lumber company if they destroy all the trees,

But that is exactly what is happening! The rainforests are largly gone and NOT
renewable anymore, only and only for short term profit.

True. And a prime example of the havoc narrow-minded, short-term gain driven
men are able to reap. Unfortunately, there are plenty of other such examples
throughout our history. Which spotlights our primal nature when it's let
off the leash, not curtailed.

Profit per se, is not the boogie man in your example. It's human nature denied
and therefore unmanaged. IMHO
  
as that would then end
  their business pretty quickly. So the good companies will make sure they don't
just destroy, but rather harvest and replenish.

Every company must first make profit before they can renew what they used, and
no company has ever renewed ALL or even MORE than they destroyed. There is no
perpetual mobile.
 Author: popsicle View Messages Posted By popsicle
 Posted: Jul 28, 2021 16:09
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popsicle (6045)

Location:  USA, Washington
Member Since Contact Type Status
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Store Closed Store: ConstrucToys
In Announce, firestar246 writes:
  In Announce, patpendlego writes:

  
Yes, and that same profit is killing our planet. Because all profit eventually
is made on natural resoources taken from our planet at low or no cost at all,
harming nature, killing woods, animals, plants, etc.

Buiness may survice on profit, our planet is not.

Don't want to get into this hornets nest, but just want to point out that
every item you mentioned is a renewable resource and are being renewed. It doesn't
help out a lumber company if they destroy all the trees, as that would then end
their business pretty quickly. So the good companies will make sure they don't
just destroy, but rather harvest and replenish.

Well put.

Timberland, much of which is owned and managed by Indian tribes, have been historically
some of the healthiest forests we have in the Pacific Northwest, for us to enjoy.
Least prone to wildfires too.
 Author: calebfishn View Messages Posted By calebfishn
 Posted: Jul 28, 2021 15:33
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calebfishn (1776)

Location:  Canada, Ontario
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Store: Barbie's Brick Store
Profit is not harming the planet. Exploitation is.

There are command and control economies in various totalitarian states of the
world in which the profit motive is reduced. Are those economies less harmful
to the environment, or more harmful?

Is it better for a society to convert forests into charcoal to be used for cooking,
and thus pollute the atmosphere with carbon smoke, or for an enterprising person
to invest in developing cleaner forms of energy that benefit people and the environment
in exchange for a profit/return on her investment? People are not going to invest
the time and money needed to bring environment-saving technological improvements
without getting a return on their investment.

Without profit motive we are left with two alternatives: Coercion by the more
powerful to force the less powerful to "work" without profit, or a global return
to a hunter-gatherer society.

Which one of the two do you advocate?
 Author: patpendlego View Messages Posted By patpendlego
 Posted: Jul 28, 2021 17:34
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patpendlego (3782)

Location:  Netherlands, Overijssel
Member Since Contact Type Status
Aug 11, 2006 Contact Member Seller
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Store: Leggodt.nl
In Announce, calebfishn writes:
  Profit is not harming the planet. Exploitation is.

Profit is exploitation. Profit means taking more than it has cost you. By definition
that is exploitation, consient deliberate exploitation. Letting someone else
pay more than it has cost you. On purpose. And getting away with it. We have
made it legal. Amazing.

  
There are command and control economies in various totalitarian states of the
world in which the profit motive is reduced. Are those economies less harmful
to the environment, or more harmful?

Is it better for a society to convert forests into charcoal to be used for cooking,
and thus pollute the atmosphere with carbon smoke, or for an enterprising person
to invest in developing cleaner forms of energy that benefit people and the environment
in exchange for a profit/return on her investment? People are not going to invest
the time and money needed to bring environment-saving technological improvements
without getting a return on their investment.

Without profit motive we are left with two alternatives: Coercion by the more
powerful to force the less powerful to "work" without profit, or a global return
to a hunter-gatherer society.

Which one of the two do you advocate?
 Author: yorbrick View Messages Posted By yorbrick
 Posted: Jul 28, 2021 18:32
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yorbrick (906)

Location:  United Kingdom, England
Member Since Contact Type Status
Apr 11, 2011 Contact Member Seller
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Store: Yorbricks
  
Profit is exploitation. Profit means taking more than it has cost you. By definition
that is exploitation, consient deliberate exploitation. Letting someone else
pay more than it has cost you. On purpose. And getting away with it. We have
made it legal. Amazing.


How much did your
 
Gear No: kc127  Name: Worker - Sterling Silver (925) Key Chain
* 
KC127 Worker - Sterling Silver (925) Key Chain
Gear: Key Chain: (Other)
cost you? And would you sell it for that?

Why would anyone selling anything charge only what that item cost them? If they
only charge what it cost them, they are working for free and taking the risk
of having unsold stock. There is then no point in buying anything to sell, hence
there would be nothing for anyone to buy.
 Author: patpendlego View Messages Posted By patpendlego
 Posted: Jul 29, 2021 00:56
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patpendlego (3782)

Location:  Netherlands, Overijssel
Member Since Contact Type Status
Aug 11, 2006 Contact Member Seller
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Store: Leggodt.nl
In Announce, yorbrick writes:
  
  
Profit is exploitation. Profit means taking more than it has cost you. By definition
that is exploitation, consient deliberate exploitation. Letting someone else
pay more than it has cost you. On purpose. And getting away with it. We have
made it legal. Amazing.


How much did your
 
Gear No: kc127  Name: Worker - Sterling Silver (925) Key Chain
* 
KC127 Worker - Sterling Silver (925) Key Chain
Gear: Key Chain: (Other)
cost you? And would you sell it for that?

Thx for the advertisement . But no, there is no profit on this (yet) because
it has not been sold/bought (yet). It's just waiting for a collector who
has made a enough profit elsewhere and therefore with enough money to spend .
That is how it all works isn't it?

  
Why would anyone selling anything charge only what that item cost them? If they
only charge what it cost them, they are working for free and taking the risk
of having unsold stock. There is then no point in buying anything to sell, hence
there would be nothing for anyone to buy.

Exactly. Without profit no progress. However the discussion is about profit made
on toys, and profit is legal, so... the question is then how much profit is acceptable?
 Author: yorbrick View Messages Posted By yorbrick
 Posted: Jul 29, 2021 03:30
 Subject: Re: Lego Resellers vs. The AFOL Community
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yorbrick (906)

Location:  United Kingdom, England
Member Since Contact Type Status
Apr 11, 2011 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: Yorbricks
In Announce, patpendlego writes:
  In Announce, yorbrick writes:
  
  
Profit is exploitation. Profit means taking more than it has cost you. By definition
that is exploitation, consient deliberate exploitation. Letting someone else
pay more than it has cost you. On purpose. And getting away with it. We have
made it legal. Amazing.


How much did your
 
Gear No: kc127  Name: Worker - Sterling Silver (925) Key Chain
* 
KC127 Worker - Sterling Silver (925) Key Chain
Gear: Key Chain: (Other)
cost you? And would you sell it for that?

Thx for the advertisement . But no, there is no profit on this (yet) because
it has not been sold/bought (yet). It's just waiting for a collector who
has made a enough profit elsewhere and therefore with enough money to spend .
That is how it all works isn't it?

I didn't say there was profit. I asked if you would exchange it for the amount
you actually paid for it.

  
  
Why would anyone selling anything charge only what that item cost them? If they
only charge what it cost them, they are working for free and taking the risk
of having unsold stock. There is then no point in buying anything to sell, hence
there would be nothing for anyone to buy.

Exactly. Without profit no progress. However the discussion is about profit made
on toys, and profit is legal, so... the question is then how much profit is acceptable?

The acceptable amount of profit is the amount a buyer is willing to pay minus
the amount the seller paid, including all their costs. It is up to the seller
to judge whether that is likely to be enough to decide to invest in the widget
they are going to try to sell on.
 Author: patpendlego View Messages Posted By patpendlego
 Posted: Jul 29, 2021 04:56
 Subject: Re: Lego Resellers vs. The AFOL Community
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patpendlego (3782)

Location:  Netherlands, Overijssel
Member Since Contact Type Status
Aug 11, 2006 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: Leggodt.nl
In Announce, yorbrick writes:
  In Announce, patpendlego writes:
  In Announce, yorbrick writes:
  
  
Profit is exploitation. Profit means taking more than it has cost you. By definition
that is exploitation, consient deliberate exploitation. Letting someone else
pay more than it has cost you. On purpose. And getting away with it. We have
made it legal. Amazing.


How much did your
 
Gear No: kc127  Name: Worker - Sterling Silver (925) Key Chain
* 
KC127 Worker - Sterling Silver (925) Key Chain
Gear: Key Chain: (Other)
cost you? And would you sell it for that?

Thx for the advertisement . But no, there is no profit on this (yet) because
it has not been sold/bought (yet). It's just waiting for a collector who
has made a enough profit elsewhere and therefore with enough money to spend .
That is how it all works isn't it?

I didn't say there was profit. I asked if you would exchange it for the amount
you actually paid for it.

  
  
Why would anyone selling anything charge only what that item cost them? If they
only charge what it cost them, they are working for free and taking the risk
of having unsold stock. There is then no point in buying anything to sell, hence
there would be nothing for anyone to buy.

Exactly. Without profit no progress. However the discussion is about profit made
on toys, and profit is legal, so... the question is then how much profit is acceptable?

The acceptable amount of profit is the amount a buyer is willing to pay minus
the amount the seller paid, including all their costs. It is up to the seller
to judge whether that is likely to be enough to decide to invest in the widget
they are going to try to sell on.

So, there is no limit to the amount of profit? 10% or 1000% or even more, as
long as there is a buyer willing to pay?
 Author: yorbrick View Messages Posted By yorbrick
 Posted: Jul 29, 2021 05:50
 Subject: Re: Lego Resellers vs. The AFOL Community
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yorbrick (906)

Location:  United Kingdom, England
Member Since Contact Type Status
Apr 11, 2011 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: Yorbricks
In Announce, patpendlego writes:
  In Announce, yorbrick writes:
  In Announce, patpendlego writes:
  In Announce, yorbrick writes:
  
  
Profit is exploitation. Profit means taking more than it has cost you. By definition
that is exploitation, consient deliberate exploitation. Letting someone else
pay more than it has cost you. On purpose. And getting away with it. We have
made it legal. Amazing.


How much did your
 
Gear No: kc127  Name: Worker - Sterling Silver (925) Key Chain
* 
KC127 Worker - Sterling Silver (925) Key Chain
Gear: Key Chain: (Other)
cost you? And would you sell it for that?

Thx for the advertisement . But no, there is no profit on this (yet) because
it has not been sold/bought (yet). It's just waiting for a collector who
has made a enough profit elsewhere and therefore with enough money to spend .
That is how it all works isn't it?

I didn't say there was profit. I asked if you would exchange it for the amount
you actually paid for it.

  
  
Why would anyone selling anything charge only what that item cost them? If they
only charge what it cost them, they are working for free and taking the risk
of having unsold stock. There is then no point in buying anything to sell, hence
there would be nothing for anyone to buy.

Exactly. Without profit no progress. However the discussion is about profit made
on toys, and profit is legal, so... the question is then how much profit is acceptable?

The acceptable amount of profit is the amount a buyer is willing to pay minus
the amount the seller paid, including all their costs. It is up to the seller
to judge whether that is likely to be enough to decide to invest in the widget
they are going to try to sell on.

So, there is no limit to the amount of profit? 10% or 1000% or even more, as
long as there is a buyer willing to pay?

Exactly. The profit need not be constant either. If I buy something for 50 and
you 99, and a buyer is willing to pay 100, then I'll make significantly more
profit than you. The profit does it depend only on what the buyer is willing
to pay, cost price is important too. So the buyer doesn't know what the profit
is. Someone else could have bought in at 110, and made a loss if they sell. The
buyer doesn't know.

As to the limits on the percentage profit, it depends how you decide to calculate
it. If you base it on your cost price, there is no upper limit. If you base it
on your sales price, the upper limit is 100%.
 Author: macebobo View Messages Posted By macebobo
 Posted: Jul 29, 2021 20:12
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macebobo (545)

Location:  USA, Oregon
Member Since Contact Type Status
Apr 3, 2016 Contact Member Seller
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Store: MacsBricks
In Announce, patpendlego writes:

  So, there is no limit to the amount of profit? 10% or 1000% or even more, as
long as there is a buyer willing to pay?

Correct.

It is time to challenge the assumptions that underlie your narrative. Profit
is a deeply moral concept, since without profit we will suffer, not from exploitation,
but from a misallocation of resources, a failure to provide the goods and services
that the economy needs, the loss of tax revenue, a reduction in employment and
the inability to provide for social need whether through the private sector or
the public sector.

So then, here are 5 reasons underlying the morality of profit.

1. Profit is the reward for putting capital at risk

Profit is the surplus generated by individuals (or groups of individuals) putting
capital at risk. It is the price of risk. Hence profit is also the reward for
innovation and ideas – the reasons why capital is put at risk. Why does that
matter? Without a reward for risk capital and innovation then we will not grow
the economy, provide for the needs of people, or create the wealth necessary
for well-being.

2. Profit proves that the economy is not a zero-sum game

Profit is not exploitation. Of course, exploitation is not a good thing and economic
surplus may arise as a result of immoral behavior; but that is a different story.
The problem there is the exploitation, rather than the profit itself. Profit
generally arises from transactions that benefit both parties. The Left love the
idea that the economy is a zero-sum game. If one party makes a profit, that must
be due to another making a corresponding loss – and moral outrage against capitalism
ensues. Profit actually represents the creation of wealth from mutually beneficial
transactions. Unless wealth is created there is no investment, no employment
and no opportunity for social good.

3. Profit shows that entrepreneurs are welcome

Entrepreneurs are the lynch pin of an economy. They are the creators and innovators
of new ideas which then attract the capital investment needed. If entrepreneurs
are not welcome, then an economy will stagnate. Entrepreneurs needed to be attracted
by the prospect of profit, so that they will bring their ideas to fruition for
the mutual benefit of all. An entrepreneur is not there to be squeezed (or even
exploited) but for the economic and social good of society.

4. Profit generates investment and employment

Another idea beloved of the Left is that once profit is generated it is simply
removed from the economy into the hands of the already wealthy. However, beyond
the rewards which are taken, without profit then there is no means of investment
whether in capital goods or human capital; in other words, no profit, no new
markets, no new production and no new employment; indeed to the contrary we are
likely to see a reduction in both. Many business people see the provision of
employment, not necessarily as the primary aim of a business, but one of the
aims of the business enterprise.

5. Profit provides the means for social transformation in society

Perhaps this is more controversial. Maybe we are not interested in social transformation
and merely in ‘individual satisfaction.’ If we take that position we damage the
moral underpinning of the rationale for profit. I am passionate about not letting
the Left claim the mandate for social welfare and the transformation of society.
They have neither history (Wilberforce, Shaftesbury were Tories) nor economics
on their side. Profit is a surplus. To argue that profit provides a basis for
social transformation is not a statement that such transformation has to be (or
can be) achieved by the state.

Certainly, government has a role to play and the generation of wealth and profit
is a necessary preliminary to the establishment of a tax base (the question of
what should be taxed and how much is a separate question). However, profit also
allows individuals to act. Through distributing surplus through individuals in
employment and investment, profit acts as a mechanism for the well-being of individuals
and families. Similarly profit provides the means for philanthropy at every level
from an individual contributing to a local charity to the larger-scale activities
of the philanthropist.

Suddenly, profit doesn’t seem so bad after all.

There is a story to tell about profit and the good that profit does. Capitalist,
like myself, have a responsibility to articulate and tell this story. What we
discover is not only that profit has a function and a purpose but that as a concept
it is deeply moral.
 Author: SomeRandomUser View Messages Posted By SomeRandomUser
 Posted: Jul 29, 2021 22:55
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SomeRandomUser (17)

Location:  USA, Kansas
Member Since Contact Type Status
Jan 24, 2015 Contact Member Buyer
Buying Privileges - OK
In Announce, macebobo writes:
  In Announce, patpendlego writes:

  So, there is no limit to the amount of profit? 10% or 1000% or even more, as
long as there is a buyer willing to pay?

Correct.

It is time to challenge the assumptions that underlie your narrative. Profit
is a deeply moral concept, since without profit we will suffer, not from exploitation,
but from a misallocation of resources, a failure to provide the goods and services
that the economy needs, the loss of tax revenue, a reduction in employment and
the inability to provide for social need whether through the private sector or
the public sector.

So then, here are 5 reasons underlying the morality of profit.

1. Profit is the reward for putting capital at risk

Profit is the surplus generated by individuals (or groups of individuals) putting
capital at risk. It is the price of risk. Hence profit is also the reward for
innovation and ideas – the reasons why capital is put at risk. Why does that
matter? Without a reward for risk capital and innovation then we will not grow
the economy, provide for the needs of people, or create the wealth necessary
for well-being.

2. Profit proves that the economy is not a zero-sum game

Profit is not exploitation. Of course, exploitation is not a good thing and economic
surplus may arise as a result of immoral behavior; but that is a different story.
The problem there is the exploitation, rather than the profit itself. Profit
generally arises from transactions that benefit both parties. The Left love the
idea that the economy is a zero-sum game. If one party makes a profit, that must
be due to another making a corresponding loss – and moral outrage against capitalism
ensues. Profit actually represents the creation of wealth from mutually beneficial
transactions. Unless wealth is created there is no investment, no employment
and no opportunity for social good.

3. Profit shows that entrepreneurs are welcome

Entrepreneurs are the lynch pin of an economy. They are the creators and innovators
of new ideas which then attract the capital investment needed. If entrepreneurs
are not welcome, then an economy will stagnate. Entrepreneurs needed to be attracted
by the prospect of profit, so that they will bring their ideas to fruition for
the mutual benefit of all. An entrepreneur is not there to be squeezed (or even
exploited) but for the economic and social good of society.

4. Profit generates investment and employment

Another idea beloved of the Left is that once profit is generated it is simply
removed from the economy into the hands of the already wealthy. However, beyond
the rewards which are taken, without profit then there is no means of investment
whether in capital goods or human capital; in other words, no profit, no new
markets, no new production and no new employment; indeed to the contrary we are
likely to see a reduction in both. Many business people see the provision of
employment, not necessarily as the primary aim of a business, but one of the
aims of the business enterprise.

5. Profit provides the means for social transformation in society

Perhaps this is more controversial. Maybe we are not interested in social transformation
and merely in ‘individual satisfaction.’ If we take that position we damage the
moral underpinning of the rationale for profit. I am passionate about not letting
the Left claim the mandate for social welfare and the transformation of society.
They have neither history (Wilberforce, Shaftesbury were Tories) nor economics
on their side. Profit is a surplus. To argue that profit provides a basis for
social transformation is not a statement that such transformation has to be (or
can be) achieved by the state.

Certainly, government has a role to play and the generation of wealth and profit
is a necessary preliminary to the establishment of a tax base (the question of
what should be taxed and how much is a separate question). However, profit also
allows individuals to act. Through distributing surplus through individuals in
employment and investment, profit acts as a mechanism for the well-being of individuals
and families. Similarly profit provides the means for philanthropy at every level
from an individual contributing to a local charity to the larger-scale activities
of the philanthropist.

Suddenly, profit doesn’t seem so bad after all.

There is a story to tell about profit and the good that profit does. Capitalist,
like myself, have a responsibility to articulate and tell this story. What we
discover is not only that profit has a function and a purpose but that as a concept
it is deeply moral.

I'd like to point out that one of the biggest issues with calling profit
or capitalism inherently good or evil, moral or immoral, is that in doing so,
one must presume they're sentient beings when they're not. They're
only ideas.

Still, your response is well put.
 Author: popsicle View Messages Posted By popsicle
 Posted: Jul 29, 2021 23:17
 Subject: Re: Lego Resellers vs. The AFOL Community
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popsicle (6045)

Location:  USA, Washington
Member Since Contact Type Status
Feb 21, 2006 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store Closed Store: ConstrucToys
In Announce, SomeRandomUser writes:
  In Announce, macebobo writes:
  In Announce, patpendlego writes:

  So, there is no limit to the amount of profit? 10% or 1000% or even more, as
long as there is a buyer willing to pay?

Correct.

It is time to challenge the assumptions that underlie your narrative. Profit
is a deeply moral concept, since without profit we will suffer, not from exploitation,
but from a misallocation of resources, a failure to provide the goods and services
that the economy needs, the loss of tax revenue, a reduction in employment and
the inability to provide for social need whether through the private sector or
the public sector.

So then, here are 5 reasons underlying the morality of profit.

1. Profit is the reward for putting capital at risk

Profit is the surplus generated by individuals (or groups of individuals) putting
capital at risk. It is the price of risk. Hence profit is also the reward for
innovation and ideas – the reasons why capital is put at risk. Why does that
matter? Without a reward for risk capital and innovation then we will not grow
the economy, provide for the needs of people, or create the wealth necessary
for well-being.

2. Profit proves that the economy is not a zero-sum game

Profit is not exploitation. Of course, exploitation is not a good thing and economic
surplus may arise as a result of immoral behavior; but that is a different story.
The problem there is the exploitation, rather than the profit itself. Profit
generally arises from transactions that benefit both parties. The Left love the
idea that the economy is a zero-sum game. If one party makes a profit, that must
be due to another making a corresponding loss – and moral outrage against capitalism
ensues. Profit actually represents the creation of wealth from mutually beneficial
transactions. Unless wealth is created there is no investment, no employment
and no opportunity for social good.

3. Profit shows that entrepreneurs are welcome

Entrepreneurs are the lynch pin of an economy. They are the creators and innovators
of new ideas which then attract the capital investment needed. If entrepreneurs
are not welcome, then an economy will stagnate. Entrepreneurs needed to be attracted
by the prospect of profit, so that they will bring their ideas to fruition for
the mutual benefit of all. An entrepreneur is not there to be squeezed (or even
exploited) but for the economic and social good of society.

4. Profit generates investment and employment

Another idea beloved of the Left is that once profit is generated it is simply
removed from the economy into the hands of the already wealthy. However, beyond
the rewards which are taken, without profit then there is no means of investment
whether in capital goods or human capital; in other words, no profit, no new
markets, no new production and no new employment; indeed to the contrary we are
likely to see a reduction in both. Many business people see the provision of
employment, not necessarily as the primary aim of a business, but one of the
aims of the business enterprise.

5. Profit provides the means for social transformation in society

Perhaps this is more controversial. Maybe we are not interested in social transformation
and merely in ‘individual satisfaction.’ If we take that position we damage the
moral underpinning of the rationale for profit. I am passionate about not letting
the Left claim the mandate for social welfare and the transformation of society.
They have neither history (Wilberforce, Shaftesbury were Tories) nor economics
on their side. Profit is a surplus. To argue that profit provides a basis for
social transformation is not a statement that such transformation has to be (or
can be) achieved by the state.

Certainly, government has a role to play and the generation of wealth and profit
is a necessary preliminary to the establishment of a tax base (the question of
what should be taxed and how much is a separate question). However, profit also
allows individuals to act. Through distributing surplus through individuals in
employment and investment, profit acts as a mechanism for the well-being of individuals
and families. Similarly profit provides the means for philanthropy at every level
from an individual contributing to a local charity to the larger-scale activities
of the philanthropist.

Suddenly, profit doesn’t seem so bad after all.

There is a story to tell about profit and the good that profit does. Capitalist,
like myself, have a responsibility to articulate and tell this story. What we
discover is not only that profit has a function and a purpose but that as a concept
it is deeply moral.

I'd like to point out that one of the biggest issues with calling profit
or capitalism inherently good or evil, moral or immoral, is that in doing so,
one must presume they're sentient beings when they're not. They're
only ideas.

Ideas too can be "good or evil, moral or immoral" These constructs are
far more complex and not reserved solely in describing "sentient beings" as you
put it.

They are in fact, human constructs. Perceptions of morality, that can apply to
the physical, and metaphysical.
  
Still, your response is well put.
 Author: macebobo View Messages Posted By macebobo
 Posted: Jul 28, 2021 18:35
 Subject: Re: Lego Resellers vs. The AFOL Community
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macebobo (545)

Location:  USA, Oregon
Member Since Contact Type Status
Apr 3, 2016 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: MacsBricks
In Announce, patpendlego writes:
  In Announce, calebfishn writes:
  Profit is not harming the planet. Exploitation is.

Profit is exploitation. Profit means taking more than it has cost you. By definition
that is exploitation, consient deliberate exploitation. Letting someone else
pay more than it has cost you. On purpose. And getting away with it. We have
made it legal. Amazing.



So, I'm sure you only sell for cost in your store then right? Or have you
exploited all of the people who purchased from you 3000+ times?

I'm also sure those 3,333 Euro Sterling silver keychains you're selling
cost you the same amount.

Please, be consistent, either you are a for profit enterprise or not, you can't
be both.
 Author: firestar246 View Messages Posted By firestar246
 Posted: Jul 28, 2021 19:34
 Subject: Re: Lego Resellers vs. The AFOL Community
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firestar246 (7862)

Location:  USA, Missouri
Member Since Contact Type Status
Jan 12, 2016 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: Tons of Bricks (GDM)
In Announce, patpendlego writes:

  Profit is exploitation. Profit means taking more than it has cost you. By definition
that is exploitation, consient deliberate exploitation. Letting someone else
pay more than it has cost you. On purpose. And getting away with it. We have
made it legal. Amazing.

This is the most ridiculous comment I have seen in a long time, and that's
saying something with the recent Designer Program thread.

Time = money. The electricity company spends time generating my electricity.
They deserve compensation for their work; and they get it in the form of an electric
bill. Then there's all the other countless bills we all get. Explain, if
profit was illegal, how I am to run a business and support a family by paying
bills and supplying them food.

Me and my workers spend lots of time parting out sets, organizing them, purchasing
containers, etc. How am I supposed to pay them without profit? How am I supposed
to buy materials that I have no plan to sell without profit from the items I
do sell?

Profit isn't taking, it's earning more than what you previously had.
I'm pretty sure you weren't born with the device you used to make that
comment. At some point, you managed to acquire it. That's profit. Your house
and everything in it is profit. Your food that you eat is profit. The whole world
needs profit to survive. Without profit, we'd be like newborn babies, without
clothes and possessions, as that is what we started like.
 Author: calebfishn View Messages Posted By calebfishn
 Posted: Jul 28, 2021 21:04
 Subject: Re: Lego Resellers vs. The AFOL Community
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calebfishn (1776)

Location:  Canada, Ontario
Member Since Contact Type Status
Feb 17, 2009 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: Barbie's Brick Store
In Announce, patpendlego writes:
  In Announce, calebfishn writes:
  Profit is not harming the planet. Exploitation is.

Profit is exploitation. Profit means taking more than it has cost you. By definition
that is exploitation, consient deliberate exploitation. Letting someone else
pay more than it has cost you. On purpose. And getting away with it. We have
made it legal. Amazing.

  That is an interesting moral judgement. Based on your view, if I have something, and you want it, I should not receive anything more for it in exchange than what I originally paid for it.

Let's take an example of a piece of wood. Suppose I pay ten dollars for some
boards. And then I make it into a nice chair. You want the chair, and so I must
sell it to you for the same ten dollars I paid for the wood?

The problem is that the system you advocate has never worked anywhere in the
world in history. (Except under coercion, leading to economic disaster and famine).

I guess theoretically it would be fair if we made an even trade, such as if I
happened to have a dozen eggs and you happened to have a loaf of bread that was
worth the same amount. Seems fair, but there is no incentive for me to keep on
farming eggs, or for increasing the amount of eggs I farm. The result is the
next time you come to me to trade for eggs, I will probably say: "Sorry, I only
bother farming enough eggs for myself and my family" and as a result you go without
eggs. Or, if its bricklink, you go without lego parts because the sellers don't
have an incentive to source and sort bricks beyond what I need for myself.

As I said, it is an interesting, though impractical, theory.
 Author: zorbanj View Messages Posted By zorbanj
 Posted: Jul 28, 2021 15:37
 Subject: Re: Lego Resellers vs. The AFOL Community
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zorbanj (411)

Location:  USA, New Jersey
Member Since Contact Type Status
Dec 14, 2003 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: ZorbaNJ's Bricks
In Announce, psusaxman2000 writes:
  To me it sometimes feels like a sense of entitlement and not realizing that you can't always get what you want.

But if you try sometimes, well, you might find you get what you need.

Sorry, I couldn't resist
 Author: Eli_n_Me View Messages Posted By Eli_n_Me
 Posted: Jul 28, 2021 20:33
 Subject: Re: Lego Resellers vs. The AFOL Community
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Eli_n_Me (3)

Location:  USA, Maryland
Member Since Contact Type Status
Apr 9, 2018 Contact Member Buyer
Buying Privileges - OK
In Announce, zorbanj writes:
  In Announce, psusaxman2000 writes:
  To me it sometimes feels like a sense of entitlement and not realizing that you can't always get what you want.

But if you try sometimes, well, you might find you get what you need.

Sorry, I couldn't resist


I had the same thought.
 Author: popsicle View Messages Posted By popsicle
 Posted: Jul 28, 2021 16:28
 Subject: Re: Lego Resellers vs. The AFOL Community
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popsicle (6045)

Location:  USA, Washington
Member Since Contact Type Status
Feb 21, 2006 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store Closed Store: ConstrucToys
In Announce, psusaxman2000 writes:
  I've only been part of this community for about 1.5 years and joined here
when I personally dove back into the LEGO community during the pandemic. I grew
up with Lego in my home and was always happy to have a new set (new to me personally)
for a holiday, birthday or whatever. As an adult now with a child, I'm
happy to be able to provide the same experiences for my daughter as she has grown
to love and enjoy a toy as much as I still do and we get to enjoy this hobby
together. What I've found recently is that there is a lot of animosity when
people tend to not get or find what they want. To me it sometimes feels like
a sense of entitlement and not realizing that you can't always get what you
want. Are there individuals that try to take advantage of the system, yes, always,
but the majority of the time, that's not the case.

I never joined this community with the intent of becoming a seller. I raided
my old collection that was still at my parents house trying to clean up space
and handing some down to my niece and nephew. In reviewing all these sets I
found that I had missing parts and that's when BL came into my life. From
there it was a matter of collecting the missing parts and reliving my childhood
over again. I found that I had extras and in collecting from some local yard
sales I just use BL to supplement my ability to purchase new sets for myself
and my daughter.

Over this time, I have similar interactions to the ones you've called out,
and at this point just come to realized that with any other social media type
thing, there are always both sides to each community and they will make themselves
loud and clear when they don't like something. To me it's just a byproduct
of the time and when they don't get what they want it will always come out.
Case and point is the BL Designer Program.

Enjoyable read. Thanks
 Author: popsicle View Messages Posted By popsicle
 Posted: Jul 28, 2021 11:16
 Subject: Re: Lego Resellers vs. The AFOL Community
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popsicle (6045)

Location:  USA, Washington
Member Since Contact Type Status
Feb 21, 2006 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store Closed Store: ConstrucToys
In Announce, StickyBrickit writes:
  I'm part of several non-BL Lego groups such as some of the FaceBook AFOL
groups plus some groups that are local to me (in the UK). I've noticed that
there is a range of opinions on people who sell / resell Lego and that (strangely,
IMO) some opinions can be vehemently negative. This can range from the odd comment
about how resellers are missing the "point" of Lego (i.e. it's a toy, it
shouldn't be resold for profit) to some downright nasty comments about me
being a "scalping scumbag" and that I'm "ruining the hobby, driving up prices,
taking food out of children's mouths" etc (not kidding about that last one!)

Tbh I'm never that bothered about any negativity as I'm sure you get
it everywhere, but I do think it's strange in that I guess people just misunderstand
how the market works. I can only set my own prices and not the general market
value, so if I overprice my Lego it won't sell, and if I underprice it then
I wouldn't make any money so there would be less Lego available (as I'd
be out of the market).

I guess Lego does retain it's value well when resold so maybe people are
angry about this, but I don't know of any resellers that are raking it in
at other people's expenses. In fact for the hours we put in I'd say we
generally don't get paid all that well. Especially when I put in extra time
for customer service (making sure we're good/very good at all aspects of
what we do, it takes extra time for which we don't actually get paid).

Just wondering if anyone else has come across this sort of negativity and accusation
that we're all driving up prices and making Lego unaffordable for most people
(I'd actually argue the opposite is the case as we provide an alternative
to buying from Lego themselves who would basically have a monopoly if resellers
didn't exist!)

Just wear the reseller label proudly. Buying n'selling is what makes retail
and wholesale markets vibrant and strong.

Comments directed at you from ideologues of any stripe, should be taken with
some skepticism. Give more weight to the pragmatist's comments instead.

-popsicle
 Author: yorbrick View Messages Posted By yorbrick
 Posted: Jul 28, 2021 11:20
 Subject: Re: Lego Resellers vs. The AFOL Community
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yorbrick (906)

Location:  United Kingdom, England
Member Since Contact Type Status
Apr 11, 2011 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: Yorbricks
In Announce, StickyBrickit writes:
  I'm part of several non-BL Lego groups such as some of the FaceBook AFOL
groups plus some groups that are local to me (in the UK). I've noticed that
there is a range of opinions on people who sell / resell Lego and that (strangely,
IMO) some opinions can be vehemently negative. This can range from the odd comment
about how resellers are missing the "point" of Lego (i.e. it's a toy, it
shouldn't be resold for profit) to some downright nasty comments about me
being a "scalping scumbag" and that I'm "ruining the hobby, driving up prices,
taking food out of children's mouths" etc (not kidding about that last one!)

Tbh I'm never that bothered about any negativity as I'm sure you get
it everywhere, but I do think it's strange in that I guess people just misunderstand
how the market works. I can only set my own prices and not the general market
value, so if I overprice my Lego it won't sell, and if I underprice it then
I wouldn't make any money so there would be less Lego available (as I'd
be out of the market).

I guess Lego does retain it's value well when resold so maybe people are
angry about this, but I don't know of any resellers that are raking it in
at other people's expenses. In fact for the hours we put in I'd say we
generally don't get paid all that well. Especially when I put in extra time
for customer service (making sure we're good/very good at all aspects of
what we do, it takes extra time for which we don't actually get paid).

Just wondering if anyone else has come across this sort of negativity and accusation
that we're all driving up prices and making Lego unaffordable for most people
(I'd actually argue the opposite is the case as we provide an alternative
to buying from Lego themselves who would basically have a monopoly if resellers
didn't exist!)

For normal, retail sets I think people with that negative mindset are wrong.
I don't think anyone has ever missed out on being able to buy a regular retail
set because of resellers. If anything, resellers have allowed people to buy new
and sealed sets way past when LEGO or the retailer wanted them gone from shelves.
Of course, some people may have missed some very good deals when things go to
clearance but that is life. They would probably have missed them anyway just
to a different kid or family instead of a reseller. But if they waited until
it had a significant discount, then they probably didn't want it that much.

Of course limited sets are a different matter. Whether they are BDP, or comic
con sets, or regional and/or store exclusives. When more people want them than
are made available they become a commodity from day one.

I think the simple answer is that if people do not like resellers, then they
make the decision never buy LEGO from a reseller, instead only from LEGO directly
or from a retailer. If they miss out, they miss out. As soon as they buy from
the secondary market, they are just as much responsible as the resellers.
 Author: rab1234 View Messages Posted By rab1234
 Posted: Jul 29, 2021 13:43
 Subject: Re: Lego Resellers vs. The AFOL Community
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rab1234 (585)

Location:  USA, North Carolina
Member Since Contact Type Status
Jun 15, 2018 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store Closed Store: Blockbusting Bricks
I've only had this be a problem once last year when trying to get Christmas
sets and calendars for my kids. I'm sure 'scalpers' were partially
to blame, but also my slowness in ordering.

-Blockbusting Bricks



In Announce, yorbrick writes:
  In Announce, StickyBrickit writes:
  I'm part of several non-BL Lego groups such as some of the FaceBook AFOL
groups plus some groups that are local to me (in the UK). I've noticed that
there is a range of opinions on people who sell / resell Lego and that (strangely,
IMO) some opinions can be vehemently negative. This can range from the odd comment
about how resellers are missing the "point" of Lego (i.e. it's a toy, it
shouldn't be resold for profit) to some downright nasty comments about me
being a "scalping scumbag" and that I'm "ruining the hobby, driving up prices,
taking food out of children's mouths" etc (not kidding about that last one!)

Tbh I'm never that bothered about any negativity as I'm sure you get
it everywhere, but I do think it's strange in that I guess people just misunderstand
how the market works. I can only set my own prices and not the general market
value, so if I overprice my Lego it won't sell, and if I underprice it then
I wouldn't make any money so there would be less Lego available (as I'd
be out of the market).

I guess Lego does retain it's value well when resold so maybe people are
angry about this, but I don't know of any resellers that are raking it in
at other people's expenses. In fact for the hours we put in I'd say we
generally don't get paid all that well. Especially when I put in extra time
for customer service (making sure we're good/very good at all aspects of
what we do, it takes extra time for which we don't actually get paid).

Just wondering if anyone else has come across this sort of negativity and accusation
that we're all driving up prices and making Lego unaffordable for most people
(I'd actually argue the opposite is the case as we provide an alternative
to buying from Lego themselves who would basically have a monopoly if resellers
didn't exist!)

For normal, retail sets I think people with that negative mindset are wrong.
I don't think anyone has ever missed out on being able to buy a regular retail
set because of resellers. If anything, resellers have allowed people to buy new
and sealed sets way past when LEGO or the retailer wanted them gone from shelves.
Of course, some people may have missed some very good deals when things go to
clearance but that is life. They would probably have missed them anyway just
to a different kid or family instead of a reseller. But if they waited until
it had a significant discount, then they probably didn't want it that much.

Of course limited sets are a different matter. Whether they are BDP, or comic
con sets, or regional and/or store exclusives. When more people want them than
are made available they become a commodity from day one.

I think the simple answer is that if people do not like resellers, then they
make the decision never buy LEGO from a reseller, instead only from LEGO directly
or from a retailer. If they miss out, they miss out. As soon as they buy from
the secondary market, they are just as much responsible as the resellers.
 Author: crimson30 View Messages Posted By crimson30
 Posted: Jul 28, 2021 11:36
 Subject: Re: Lego Resellers vs. The AFOL Community
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crimson30 (170)

Location:  USA, Utah
Member Since Contact Type Status
Sep 20, 2017 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: Crimsonic
Parting out sets clearly adds value to the Lego community. I'd much rather
pay $1 for a Sky Blue 2x4 plate than buy a $100+ set for it. If I had to buy
sets to get the parts for every MOC I wanted to make, it would be very cost prohibitive
and Lego would lose me as a consumer.

Maybe some people aren't considering MOC builders? I've seen a lot of
people who are tunnel-visioned into the paradigm of Lego only being about sets
and/or minifigs. With that sort of thinking, that value-added is marginalized.
 Author: runner.caller View Messages Posted By runner.caller
 Posted: Jul 28, 2021 14:39
 Subject: Re: Lego Resellers vs. The AFOL Community
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runner.caller (1796)

Location:  USA, South Dakota
Member Since Contact Type Status
Jan 18, 2014 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: A Minifig Galore Store
In Announce, crimson30 writes:
  Parting out sets clearly adds value to the Lego community. I'd much rather
pay $1 for a Sky Blue 2x4 plate than buy a $100+ set for it. If I had to buy
sets to get the parts for every MOC I wanted to make, it would be very cost prohibitive
and Lego would lose me as a consumer.

Maybe some people aren't considering MOC builders? I've seen a lot of
people who are tunnel-visioned into the paradigm of Lego only being about sets
and/or minifigs. With that sort of thinking, that value-added is marginalized.

As does bulk minfig listings.

If a seller undertakes the arduous task of ID'ing a ton of minifig components,
and then listing them or using them to complete figures, then they are getting
paid for that value added.

If I buy a used lot for $100, and everything sorted and combined and relisted
is worth $450, a collector who has more money than me, but less time is willing
to trade their money for certain figure(s) that they want, but don't have
time to hunt and compile themselves, then that is absolutely fair.

Try acquiring all of the Lord of The Rings figures now for a minifig collection
if resellers didn't exist.

I've seen one and only one instagram comment where I posted the price guide
image next to a rare figure part and someone commented "rip off".

Just because they see it as a toy and not a commodity doesn't mean they're
right.

I'd tell any negative peeps in regards to this to respectfully, pound sand.
 Author: yorbrick View Messages Posted By yorbrick
 Posted: Jul 28, 2021 15:01
 Subject: Re: Lego Resellers vs. The AFOL Community
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yorbrick (906)

Location:  United Kingdom, England
Member Since Contact Type Status
Apr 11, 2011 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: Yorbricks
.
  
I've seen one and only one instagram comment where I posted the price guide
image next to a rare figure part and someone commented "rip off".

Just because they see it as a toy and not a commodity doesn't mean they're
right.

Yeah. It's funny how lego is just a kids' toy when someone wants something
cheap, but it's a valuable collectable when it is in their hands.

If they want a palantir for their LOTR collection, they can buy a 20c Zamor sphere
in red and yellow instead of a black and lime one. It's just a toy, after
all.
 Author: runner.caller View Messages Posted By runner.caller
 Posted: Jul 29, 2021 12:40
 Subject: Re: Lego Resellers vs. The AFOL Community
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runner.caller (1796)

Location:  USA, South Dakota
Member Since Contact Type Status
Jan 18, 2014 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: A Minifig Galore Store
In Announce, yorbrick writes:
  .
  
I've seen one and only one instagram comment where I posted the price guide
image next to a rare figure part and someone commented "rip off".

Just because they see it as a toy and not a commodity doesn't mean they're
right.

Yeah. It's funny how lego is just a kids' toy when someone wants something
cheap, but it's a valuable collectable when it is in their hands.

If they want a palantir for their LOTR collection, they can buy a 20c Zamor sphere
in red and yellow instead of a black and lime one. It's just a toy, after
all.

Exactly! And thanks! Despite having nearly 400 lotr minifigs in the personal
collection, I had no idea the palantir part was so expensive. I've never
encountered it, probably a reason. haha
 Author: rab1234 View Messages Posted By rab1234
 Posted: Jul 29, 2021 13:46
 Subject: Re: Lego Resellers vs. The AFOL Community
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rab1234 (585)

Location:  USA, North Carolina
Member Since Contact Type Status
Jun 15, 2018 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store Closed Store: Blockbusting Bricks
I've actually managed to acquire all the Lord of the Rings figs that I wanted
(and helm's deep) without buying any directly from resellers, but then again
I've also bought and sorted about 1500 pounds of Lego over the past 3 years.

-Blockbusting Bricks


In Announce, runner.caller writes:
  In Announce, crimson30 writes:
  Parting out sets clearly adds value to the Lego community. I'd much rather
pay $1 for a Sky Blue 2x4 plate than buy a $100+ set for it. If I had to buy
sets to get the parts for every MOC I wanted to make, it would be very cost prohibitive
and Lego would lose me as a consumer.

Maybe some people aren't considering MOC builders? I've seen a lot of
people who are tunnel-visioned into the paradigm of Lego only being about sets
and/or minifigs. With that sort of thinking, that value-added is marginalized.

As does bulk minfig listings.

If a seller undertakes the arduous task of ID'ing a ton of minifig components,
and then listing them or using them to complete figures, then they are getting
paid for that value added.

If I buy a used lot for $100, and everything sorted and combined and relisted
is worth $450, a collector who has more money than me, but less time is willing
to trade their money for certain figure(s) that they want, but don't have
time to hunt and compile themselves, then that is absolutely fair.

Try acquiring all of the Lord of The Rings figures now for a minifig collection
if resellers didn't exist.

I've seen one and only one instagram comment where I posted the price guide
image next to a rare figure part and someone commented "rip off".

Just because they see it as a toy and not a commodity doesn't mean they're
right.

I'd tell any negative peeps in regards to this to respectfully, pound sand.
 Author: musen2100 View Messages Posted By musen2100
 Posted: Jul 28, 2021 11:39
 Subject: Re: Lego Resellers vs. The AFOL Community
 Viewed: 70 times
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musen2100 (16)

Location:  Denmark
Member Since Contact Type Status
Jul 6, 2020 Contact Member Buyer
Buying Privileges - OK
In Announce, StickyBrickit writes:
  I'm part of several non-BL Lego groups such as some of the FaceBook AFOL
groups plus some groups that are local to me (in the UK). I've noticed that
there is a range of opinions on people who sell / resell Lego and that (strangely,
IMO) some opinions can be vehemently negative. This can range from the odd comment
about how resellers are missing the "point" of Lego (i.e. it's a toy, it
shouldn't be resold for profit) to some downright nasty comments about me
being a "scalping scumbag" and that I'm "ruining the hobby, driving up prices,
taking food out of children's mouths" etc (not kidding about that last one!)

Tbh I'm never that bothered about any negativity as I'm sure you get
it everywhere, but I do think it's strange in that I guess people just misunderstand
how the market works. I can only set my own prices and not the general market
value, so if I overprice my Lego it won't sell, and if I underprice it then
I wouldn't make any money so there would be less Lego available (as I'd
be out of the market).

I guess Lego does retain it's value well when resold so maybe people are
angry about this, but I don't know of any resellers that are raking it in
at other people's expenses. In fact for the hours we put in I'd say we
generally don't get paid all that well. Especially when I put in extra time
for customer service (making sure we're good/very good at all aspects of
what we do, it takes extra time for which we don't actually get paid).

Just wondering if anyone else has come across this sort of negativity and accusation
that we're all driving up prices and making Lego unaffordable for most people
(I'd actually argue the opposite is the case as we provide an alternative
to buying from Lego themselves who would basically have a monopoly if resellers
didn't exist!)

I am assuming you are also talking about older sets. For me after learning about
bricklink I have been able to get sets that I couldn't afford when I was
a small child. I can afford them now but without resellers I wouldn't be
able to buy them. Recently I have finally been able to obtain the 10143 UCS Death
Star II New for $550 by buying the parts. That is incredible. I also got the
6211 here for a bit over $150 (no minifigs, but new). Without any resellers this
would never have been possible, ignore the hate comments, you resellers are awesome
.
 Author: StickyBrickit View Messages Posted By StickyBrickit
 Posted: Jul 28, 2021 12:13
 Subject: Re: Lego Resellers vs. The AFOL Community
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StickyBrickit (112)

Location:  United Kingdom, England
Member Since Contact Type Status
Sep 28, 2017 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: StickyBrickit
In Announce, musen2100 writes:
  In Announce, StickyBrickit writes:
  I'm part of several non-BL Lego groups such as some of the FaceBook AFOL
groups plus some groups that are local to me (in the UK). I've noticed that
there is a range of opinions on people who sell / resell Lego and that (strangely,
IMO) some opinions can be vehemently negative. This can range from the odd comment
about how resellers are missing the "point" of Lego (i.e. it's a toy, it
shouldn't be resold for profit) to some downright nasty comments about me
being a "scalping scumbag" and that I'm "ruining the hobby, driving up prices,
taking food out of children's mouths" etc (not kidding about that last one!)

Tbh I'm never that bothered about any negativity as I'm sure you get
it everywhere, but I do think it's strange in that I guess people just misunderstand
how the market works. I can only set my own prices and not the general market
value, so if I overprice my Lego it won't sell, and if I underprice it then
I wouldn't make any money so there would be less Lego available (as I'd
be out of the market).

I guess Lego does retain it's value well when resold so maybe people are
angry about this, but I don't know of any resellers that are raking it in
at other people's expenses. In fact for the hours we put in I'd say we
generally don't get paid all that well. Especially when I put in extra time
for customer service (making sure we're good/very good at all aspects of
what we do, it takes extra time for which we don't actually get paid).

Just wondering if anyone else has come across this sort of negativity and accusation
that we're all driving up prices and making Lego unaffordable for most people
(I'd actually argue the opposite is the case as we provide an alternative
to buying from Lego themselves who would basically have a monopoly if resellers
didn't exist!)

I am assuming you are also talking about older sets. For me after learning about
bricklink I have been able to get sets that I couldn't afford when I was
a small child. I can afford them now but without resellers I wouldn't be
able to buy them. Recently I have finally been able to obtain the 10143 UCS Death
Star II New for $550 by buying the parts. That is incredible. I also got the
6211 here for a bit over $150 (no minifigs, but new). Without any resellers this
would never have been possible, ignore the hate comments, you resellers are awesome
.

I get comments around everything new and old, rare and common, but the worst
ones usually relate to new sets that sell out quickly and people can't get
them at RRP and instead have to pay the initial inflated price when they get
relisted. I get this is annoying for people, and tbh not something I do, but
I still don't think the people doing it are really doing anything "wrong"
as it's a free market and people can buy what they like and try to resell
it for whatever they like.
 Author: waltzking View Messages Posted By waltzking
 Posted: Jul 28, 2021 14:50
 Subject: Re: Lego Resellers vs. The AFOL Community
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waltzking (7461)

Location:  USA, Missouri
Member Since Contact Type Status
Feb 28, 2005 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: A *Deal* 4 U
In Announce, StickyBrickit writes:
  In Announce, musen2100 writes:
  In Announce, StickyBrickit writes:
  I'm part of several non-BL Lego groups such as some of the FaceBook AFOL
groups plus some groups that are local to me (in the UK). I've noticed that
there is a range of opinions on people who sell / resell Lego and that (strangely,
IMO) some opinions can be vehemently negative. This can range from the odd comment
about how resellers are missing the "point" of Lego (i.e. it's a toy, it
shouldn't be resold for profit) to some downright nasty comments about me
being a "scalping scumbag" and that I'm "ruining the hobby, driving up prices,
taking food out of children's mouths" etc (not kidding about that last one!)

Tbh I'm never that bothered about any negativity as I'm sure you get
it everywhere, but I do think it's strange in that I guess people just misunderstand
how the market works. I can only set my own prices and not the general market
value, so if I overprice my Lego it won't sell, and if I underprice it then
I wouldn't make any money so there would be less Lego available (as I'd
be out of the market).

I guess Lego does retain it's value well when resold so maybe people are
angry about this, but I don't know of any resellers that are raking it in
at other people's expenses. In fact for the hours we put in I'd say we
generally don't get paid all that well. Especially when I put in extra time
for customer service (making sure we're good/very good at all aspects of
what we do, it takes extra time for which we don't actually get paid).

Just wondering if anyone else has come across this sort of negativity and accusation
that we're all driving up prices and making Lego unaffordable for most people
(I'd actually argue the opposite is the case as we provide an alternative
to buying from Lego themselves who would basically have a monopoly if resellers
didn't exist!)

I am assuming you are also talking about older sets. For me after learning about
bricklink I have been able to get sets that I couldn't afford when I was
a small child. I can afford them now but without resellers I wouldn't be
able to buy them. Recently I have finally been able to obtain the 10143 UCS Death
Star II New for $550 by buying the parts. That is incredible. I also got the
6211 here for a bit over $150 (no minifigs, but new). Without any resellers this
would never have been possible, ignore the hate comments, you resellers are awesome
.

I get comments around everything new and old, rare and common, but the worst
ones usually relate to new sets that sell out quickly and people can't get
them at RRP and instead have to pay the initial inflated price when they get
relisted. I get this is annoying for people, and tbh not something I do, but
I still don't think the people doing it are really doing anything "wrong"
as it's a free market and people can buy what they like and try to resell
it for whatever they like.

IMO its more so the anti-capitalist (or communist) teaching of youth that has
created the idea that profit is bad, and everyone deserves the same outcome...thus
anything they want they deserve to get, and anyone who gets more than they wanted
is (quote) "scalping scumbag."

I once even ran into a buyer on eBay who I had to give a basic lessen in economics
to after he "felt terrible" he sold something to be for more than he had paid.
When I enlightened him that likely everything in life he ever bought had the
seller making a profit (be it Amazon, Walmart or a private seller), it was
like a light bulb moment for him... I just don't get how he reached adulthood
not realizing this absolutely basic component of a free market? Seemingly schools
noways are not even teaching basic concepts, but rather indoctrinating youth
with who knows what instead!!!

Rant over, but I honestly think it all stems from a disconnect on the way the
last generation or two has been taught. Especially in well-to-do societies where
a large sum of the children have been pampered and treated like self-serving
royalty, rather than trainees facing graduated real-life challenges aiming to
help them become the leaders they need to be for the next generation. Global
warming won't wipe us out nearly as quick as such lack of knowledge and training
will.

Jonathan
 Author: crimson30 View Messages Posted By crimson30
 Posted: Jul 28, 2021 15:00
 Subject: Re: Lego Resellers vs. The AFOL Community
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crimson30 (170)

Location:  USA, Utah
Member Since Contact Type Status
Sep 20, 2017 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: Crimsonic
How are schools indoctrinating youth against capitalism?

Do you have any specific examples?
 Author: waltzking View Messages Posted By waltzking
 Posted: Jul 28, 2021 15:35
 Subject: Re: Lego Resellers vs. The AFOL Community
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waltzking (7461)

Location:  USA, Missouri
Member Since Contact Type Status
Feb 28, 2005 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: A *Deal* 4 U
In Announce, crimson30 writes:
  How are schools indoctrinating youth against capitalism?

Do you have any specific examples?

I could really get off topic here, but just try looking at the curriculum being
taught and compare it to that from 20-30 years ago. History events are changed
or omitted, key "fathers of communism" figures are now celebrated in countries
formerly known as capitalistic or free market. Couple with what students really
know (if you take the time to talk to any and dig for depth of knowledge in conversation)
and you'll find the vast differences in education in just the last few decades.

That's just the tip of the iceberg, but this forum isn't the place for
the topic beyond how it relates to our interactions now as sellers, buyers and
collectors from largely opposite economic world views. But is key IMO to understanding
why these vastly opposite and even angry interactions are occurring with consumers
faulting the profits of a reseller as immoral, when the original seller made
just as much if not more profit to start with. The lack of logic in such a view
is astounding.

Jonathan
 Author: crimson30 View Messages Posted By crimson30
 Posted: Jul 28, 2021 15:48
 Subject: Re: Lego Resellers vs. The AFOL Community
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crimson30 (170)

Location:  USA, Utah
Member Since Contact Type Status
Sep 20, 2017 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: Crimsonic
  looking at the curriculum

Which curriculum? For what school?

I did K-12 mostly in California and I didn't encounter anything remotely
leftist. For college, I took one economics class and it went into some detail
about the pitfalls of command economies.

I get that the plural of anecdote is not data, as they say. In other words,
I'm not suggesting my experience is the only experience. But I am curious
as to what you've seen that supports your claim, simply because it seems
quite bizarre in relation to my experience. What class did you take that celebrated
the fathers of communism? What key events were omitted or changed to further
that viewpoint?
 Author: firestar246 View Messages Posted By firestar246
 Posted: Jul 28, 2021 15:00
 Subject: Re: Lego Resellers vs. The AFOL Community
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firestar246 (7862)

Location:  USA, Missouri
Member Since Contact Type Status
Jan 12, 2016 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: Tons of Bricks (GDM)
In Announce, waltzking writes:

  
IMO its more so the anti-capitalist (or communist) teaching of youth that has
created the idea that profit is bad, and everyone deserves the same outcome...thus
anything they want they deserve to get, and anyone who gets more than they wanted
is (quote) "scalping scumbag."

I once even ran into a buyer on eBay who I had to give a basic lessen in economics
to after he "felt terrible" he sold something to be for more than he had paid.
When I enlightened him that likely everything in life he ever bought had the
seller making a profit (be it Amazon, Walmart or a private seller), it was
like a light bulb moment for him... I just don't get how he reached adulthood
not realizing this absolutely basic component of a free market? Seemingly schools
noways are not even teaching basic concepts, but rather indoctrinating youth
with who knows what instead!!!

Rant over, but I honestly think it all stems from a disconnect on the way the
last generation or two has been taught. Especially in well-to-do societies where
a large sum of the children have been pampered and treated like self-serving
royalty, rather than trainees facing graduated real-life challenges aiming to
help them become the leaders they need to be for the next generation. Global
warming won't wipe us out nearly as quick as such lack of knowledge and training
will.

Jonathan

I have to agree 110% with you here!
 Author: SomeRandomUser View Messages Posted By SomeRandomUser
 Posted: Jul 28, 2021 13:54
 Subject: Re: Lego Resellers vs. The AFOL Community
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SomeRandomUser (17)

Location:  USA, Kansas
Member Since Contact Type Status
Jan 24, 2015 Contact Member Buyer
Buying Privileges - OK
In Announce, StickyBrickit writes:
  I'm part of several non-BL Lego groups such as some of the FaceBook AFOL
groups plus some groups that are local to me (in the UK). I've noticed that
there is a range of opinions on people who sell / resell Lego and that (strangely,
IMO) some opinions can be vehemently negative. This can range from the odd comment
about how resellers are missing the "point" of Lego (i.e. it's a toy, it
shouldn't be resold for profit) to some downright nasty comments about me
being a "scalping scumbag" and that I'm "ruining the hobby, driving up prices,
taking food out of children's mouths" etc (not kidding about that last one!)

Tbh I'm never that bothered about any negativity as I'm sure you get
it everywhere, but I do think it's strange in that I guess people just misunderstand
how the market works. I can only set my own prices and not the general market
value, so if I overprice my Lego it won't sell, and if I underprice it then
I wouldn't make any money so there would be less Lego available (as I'd
be out of the market).

I guess Lego does retain it's value well when resold so maybe people are
angry about this, but I don't know of any resellers that are raking it in
at other people's expenses. In fact for the hours we put in I'd say we
generally don't get paid all that well. Especially when I put in extra time
for customer service (making sure we're good/very good at all aspects of
what we do, it takes extra time for which we don't actually get paid).

Just wondering if anyone else has come across this sort of negativity and accusation
that we're all driving up prices and making Lego unaffordable for most people
(I'd actually argue the opposite is the case as we provide an alternative
to buying from Lego themselves who would basically have a monopoly if resellers
didn't exist!)

Recently bought a new copy of 1349 from Bricklink for roughly $170, which isn't
cheap but when you think about it, it's worth roughly what the set was worth
new. That's one set that hasn't really appreciated much in value but
most of the larger sets from the 2000s I've wanted appreciated a lot in value
and it's disappointing but understandable given how economics work.

Really can't say market manipulation is a problem on BL. If it is, it's
not noticeable compared to the stunts pulled frequently on Amazon and eBay where
the sellers think they've got gold and there are quite a lot of people out
there that give in and buy those sets because they often times don't know
sites like this exist.

Going back to set 1349, I'm glad I jumped on it because on eBay or Amazon
sellers were wanting $300+ from what I saw so it was a matter of time before
someone purchased it just to flip on another site for a profit. So not so much
a problem here as it is elsewhere and most of the sellers here shouldn't
be getting the flack.

Seller was nice and I'll enjoy using the set.
 Author: Teup View Messages Posted By Teup
 Posted: Jul 29, 2021 06:32
 Subject: Re: Lego Resellers vs. The AFOL Community
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Teup (5098)

Location:  Netherlands, Utrecht
Member Since Contact Type Status
May 6, 2004 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: BLOKJESKONING
In Announce, StickyBrickit writes:
  I'm part of several non-BL Lego groups such as some of the FaceBook AFOL
groups plus some groups that are local to me (in the UK). I've noticed that
there is a range of opinions on people who sell / resell Lego and that (strangely,
IMO) some opinions can be vehemently negative. This can range from the odd comment
about how resellers are missing the "point" of Lego (i.e. it's a toy, it
shouldn't be resold for profit) to some downright nasty comments about me
being a "scalping scumbag" and that I'm "ruining the hobby, driving up prices,
taking food out of children's mouths" etc (not kidding about that last one!)

Tbh I'm never that bothered about any negativity as I'm sure you get
it everywhere, but I do think it's strange in that I guess people just misunderstand
how the market works. I can only set my own prices and not the general market
value, so if I overprice my Lego it won't sell, and if I underprice it then
I wouldn't make any money so there would be less Lego available (as I'd
be out of the market).

I guess Lego does retain it's value well when resold so maybe people are
angry about this, but I don't know of any resellers that are raking it in
at other people's expenses. In fact for the hours we put in I'd say we
generally don't get paid all that well. Especially when I put in extra time
for customer service (making sure we're good/very good at all aspects of
what we do, it takes extra time for which we don't actually get paid).

Just wondering if anyone else has come across this sort of negativity and accusation
that we're all driving up prices and making Lego unaffordable for most people
(I'd actually argue the opposite is the case as we provide an alternative
to buying from Lego themselves who would basically have a monopoly if resellers
didn't exist!)

People who have a problem with lego parts being sold separately just need to
see a doctor. I would read such opinions only for amusement purposes It must
be more about some other problem they're dealing with (maybe Lego being expensive
in general, or the short shelf life of sets in stores), because it can't
seriously be 'that'.
 Author: TakeAbricK View Messages Posted By TakeAbricK
 Posted: Jul 30, 2021 01:33
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TakeAbricK (11429)

Location:  Netherlands, Gelderland
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