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| | | Author: | pgremeau  | | Posted: | Jul 17, 2021 05:59 | | Subject: | 48723 and 68888 are not the same mold? | | Viewed: | 108 times | | Topic: | Catalog Requests | | For: | Catalog Associate | | Status: | Already Exists | |
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| This is regarding and which both refer to the other part
as "This Item is similar in mold type to the following Item(s)".
But 48723 has an anti-stud (which btw is not a "Pin Hole") and therefore has
a slightly thicker central part. You can see it on the diff pictures (even on
the part pictures themselves) that their heights are different.
Can we change this? Otherwise sellers are going to sell either parts under either
part ids...
Thanks!
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| | | | | Author: | pgremeau | | Posted: | Jul 17, 2021 06:02 | | Subject: | Re: 48723 and 68888 are not the same mold? | | Viewed: | 37 times | | Topic: | Catalog Requests | |
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| Never mind about the pin hole, I was wrong on this point, which is even more
reason that it's not the same mold.
In Catalog Requests, pgremeau writes:
| | This is regarding and which both refer to the other part
as "This Item is similar in mold type to the following Item(s)".
But 48723 has an anti-stud (which btw is not a "Pin Hole") and therefore has
a slightly thicker central part. You can see it on the diff pictures (even on
the part pictures themselves) that their heights are different.
Can we change this? Otherwise sellers are going to sell either parts under either
part ids...
Thanks!
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| | | | | Author: | Turez | | Posted: | Jul 17, 2021 06:20 | | Subject: | Re: 48723 and 68888 are not the same mold? | | Viewed: | 44 times | | Topic: | Catalog Requests | |
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| In Catalog Requests, pgremeau writes:
| | This is regarding and which both refer to the other part
as "This Item is similar in mold type to the following Item(s)".
But 48723 has an anti-stud (which btw is not a "Pin Hole") and therefore has
a slightly thicker central part. You can see it on the diff pictures (even on
the part pictures themselves) that their heights are different.
Can we change this? Otherwise sellers are going to sell either parts under either
part ids...
Thanks!
|
I don't see anything here that has to be changed. The parts are similar but
not identical (and most important they are functionally different). Therefore
we have the "This Item is similar in mold type to..." relationship to let everyone
who finds either entry know that there is a similar part. This is to assure that
sellers are NOT going to sell the parts under wrong entries.
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| | | | | | | Author: | pgremeau | | Posted: | Jul 17, 2021 07:15 | | Subject: | Re: 48723 and 68888 are not the same mold? | | Viewed: | 40 times | | Topic: | Catalog Requests | |
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| Well, I just had an order where I ordered the new type and got both types mixed.
When I told them, the seller replied that BL says these are the same molds so
they don't need to differentiate. And added the note to these pieces:
"May be part #48723 or #68888 or a mix PER TERMS WE DO NOT DIFFERENTIATE MOLDS"
In Catalog Requests, Turez writes:
| | In Catalog Requests, pgremeau writes:
| | This is regarding and which both refer to the other part
as "This Item is similar in mold type to the following Item(s)".
But 48723 has an anti-stud (which btw is not a "Pin Hole") and therefore has
a slightly thicker central part. You can see it on the diff pictures (even on
the part pictures themselves) that their heights are different.
Can we change this? Otherwise sellers are going to sell either parts under either
part ids...
Thanks!
|
I don't see anything here that has to be changed. The parts are similar but
not identical (and most important they are functionally different). Therefore
we have the "This Item is similar in mold type to..." relationship to let everyone
who finds either entry know that there is a similar part. This is to assure that
sellers are NOT going to sell the parts under wrong entries.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | Turez | | Posted: | Jul 17, 2021 07:55 | | Subject: | Re: 48723 and 68888 are not the same mold? | | Viewed: | 37 times | | Topic: | Catalog Requests | |
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| In Catalog Requests, pgremeau writes:
| | Well, I just had an order where I ordered the new type and got both types mixed.
When I told them, the seller replied that BL says these are the same molds
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Which is not correct. Nowhere BL says these are the same molds. As said, the
parts are even functionally different. And we have pretty good comparison images
for them and all set inventories are correct concerning these parts (so no wrong
or "undetermined" entries or things like that). I would expect sellers to properly
distinguish these parts.
| | so
they don't need to differentiate.
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See above.
| | And added the note to these pieces:
"May be part #48723 or #68888 or a mix PER TERMS WE DO NOT DIFFERENTIATE MOLDS"
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So without further clarification that basically means they can send you any part
that comes close to what you've ordered. 
I would avoid buying from such sellers. (I know, not very helpful to say that
*after* you have bought from them.  )
Anyway, I believe in this case there is nothing we could do from the catalog
side.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | tons_of_bricks | | Posted: | Jul 17, 2021 09:00 | | Subject: | Re: 48723 and 68888 are not the same mold? | | Viewed: | 34 times | | Topic: | Catalog Requests | |
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| In Catalog Requests, Turez writes:
| | Which is not correct. Nowhere BL says these are the same molds. As said, the
parts are even functionally different. And we have pretty good comparison images
for them and all set inventories are correct concerning these parts (so no wrong
or "undetermined" entries or things like that). I would expect sellers to properly
distinguish these parts.
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| |
So without further clarification that basically means they can send you any part
that comes close to what you've ordered.
I would avoid buying from such sellers. (I know, not very helpful to say that
*after* you have bought from them. )
Anyway, I believe in this case there is nothing we could do from the catalog
side.
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Agree with Turz here. Similar does not mean same. If Bricklink considered them
the same, then there would only be one listing.
I would not suggest buying from that seller again.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Jul 17, 2021 09:40 | | Subject: | Re: 48723 and 68888 are not the same mold? | | Viewed: | 32 times | | Topic: | Catalog Requests | |
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| In Catalog Requests, firestar246 writes:
| | […]
Agree with Turz here. Similar does not mean same. If Bricklink considered them
the same, then there would only be one listing.
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To play the Devil’s advocate, I’d say the problem is all variance relationships
are not equal:
and its a, b, c, d variants.
They all have the same ID but with a different letter, and the functional difference
isn’t obvious (I’m not sure but some may fit where others don’t, e.g. in rotation).
But 4085 is undetermined and can be used in WLs & store inventories (it’s not
“marked for deletion” to prevent it), and many people don’t care which version
they sell/buy. Does BL really care when a seller doesn’t use the 4085 entry
when they don’t differentiate? Is it enforced?
Or the first two are grooved or not, that’s
more aesthetics than function, only the last brings a difference in function.
I’m guessing more people care about the functionnality added by 15573 than for
4085. But there’s also an entry for the undetermined version, and it covers
the three versions, so is it allowed to not differentiate?
And then, there’s
* | | 55982 Wheel 18mm D. x 14mm with Axle Hole, Fake Bolts and Shallow Spokes
Parts: Wheel |
* | | 55981 Wheel 18mm D. x 14mm with Pin Hole, Fake Bolts and Shallow Spokes
Parts: Wheel |
They have the same “similar mold” relationship
in the catalogue but are really not the same. There’s no undetermined entry.
So, it’s not allowed to not separate them, is it?
Now, where does the “mold similarity” between 48723 & 68888 fall?
Shouldn’t there be two “mold similarity” relations to prevent this confusion,
or is the presence/absence of an undetermined entry sufficient? It doesn’t seem
to be sufficient for this seller.
| | I would not suggest buying from that seller again.
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Yes. There’s sellers who say “we don’t differentiate,” but they rarely go into
detail about where they draw their line. I’d rather they all use the undetermined
entry (as I guess they should) but looking if they have the other variants sometime
helps: after all, they wouldn’t use one entry for, say, the Red parts, and another
for the Blue ones, or would they?
Right. So the only way to be sure is to avoid them 
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | jennnifer | | Posted: | Jul 17, 2021 09:46 | | Subject: | Re: 48723 and 68888 are not the same mold? | | Viewed: | 27 times | | Topic: | Catalog Requests | |
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| | | In Catalog Requests, SylvainLS writes:
Right. So the only way to be sure is to avoid them
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To me, a seller who states they don't differentiate is simply advertising:
"I don't like (or have the time) to pay attention to small details."
Yeah, you run a LEGO shop. Small details are pretty important...
Jen
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | pgremeau | | Posted: | Jul 17, 2021 15:22 | | Subject: | Re: 48723 and 68888 are not the same mold? | | Viewed: | 23 times | | Topic: | Catalog Requests | |
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| In Catalog Requests, jennnifer writes:
| | Yeah, you run a LEGO shop. Small details are pretty important...
Jen
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Let's say that when I started describing the differences between the two
parts, the discussion went south rapidly for a brief moment
Some sellers are passionate about what they are selling, others just sell merchandize,
but in both groups you have great and bad sellers and in this case, I believe
it's a great seller I want to be able to go back to.
Also, in this case we are talking about a piece that was introduced this year,
so I think it's understandable that there may be confusion about its differences
with existing parts?
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | pgremeau | | Posted: | Jul 17, 2021 15:13 | | Subject: | Re: 48723 and 68888 are not the same mold? | | Viewed: | 27 times | | Topic: | Catalog Requests | |
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| In Catalog Requests, SylvainLS writes:
| | To play the Devil’s advocate, I’d say the problem is all variance relationships
are not equal:
...
...
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Oui Sylvain, the O/U clips were exactly what I was thinking. I got also confused
because on Rebrickable, they have two part relationships "same mold" and "alternate".
The recent 68888 part had been marked as a "same mold" and they changed it to
"alternate" after I mentioned this. This is why I initially didn't question
the seller on that point, thinking it was the same here.
Merci!
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Jul 17, 2021 15:39 | | Subject: | Re: 48723 and 68888 are not the same mold? | | Viewed: | 27 times | | Topic: | Catalog Requests | |
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| In Catalog Requests, pgremeau writes:
| | […]
Oui Sylvain, the O/U clips were exactly what I was thinking. I got also confused
because on Rebrickable, they have two part relationships "same mold" and "alternate".
The recent 68888 part had been marked as a "same mold" and they changed it to
"alternate" after I mentioned this. This is why I initially didn't question
the seller on that point, thinking it was the same here.
Merci!
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More confusing: “Alternate” is also used on BL: look on for instance,
it’s written
“Item No: 6060 Alternate Item No: 15967, 30935”
So LEGO made the same¹ part with different IDs, and BL says they are the same
part/entry in the catalogue.
BL vocabulary: alternate ID vs. similar mould,
RB vocabulary: same mould vs. alternate part….
———
¹ Generally, the differences between alternate IDs are hard to tell, and you
need to look at the number embossed on the parts.
Also, TLG uses different moulds for transparent parts because different plastics
need different moulds (slightly different size to accomodate for different dilation),
so their IDs are different.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | pgremeau | | Posted: | Jul 17, 2021 15:09 | | Subject: | Re: 48723 and 68888 are not the same mold? | | Viewed: | 24 times | | Topic: | Catalog Requests | |
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| In Catalog Requests, Turez writes:
| | So without further clarification that basically means they can send you any part
that comes close to what you've ordered.
I would avoid buying from such sellers. (I know, not very helpful to say that
*after* you have bought from them. )
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Well, the fact is, except for this one mishap, I've been buying from this
seller for a while now, they always have a good set of parts with good prices
and it always have been good, so that's not something I'm going to change
for one issue that was easily resolved to my liking.
But yes, thanks for the explanation I agree with the catalog thing, except for
the clip thing that I considered mentioning and that Sylvain ended up mentioning.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | jennnifer | | Posted: | Jul 17, 2021 09:35 | | Subject: | Re: 48723 and 68888 are not the same mold? | | Viewed: | 34 times | | Topic: | Catalog Requests | |
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| In Catalog Requests, pgremeau writes:
| | Well, I just had an order where I ordered the new type and got both types mixed.
When I told them, the seller replied that BL says these are the same molds so
they don't need to differentiate. And added the note to these pieces:
"May be part #48723 or #68888 or a mix PER TERMS WE DO NOT DIFFERENTIATE MOLDS"
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Many sellers state on their splash pages or in their store terms that they
do not differentiate between similar molds. This is entirely up to the seller
and has nothing to do with the BL catalog or policies.
Jen
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Jul 17, 2021 09:44 | | Subject: | Re: 48723 and 68888 are not the same mold? | | Viewed: | 27 times | | Topic: | Catalog Requests | |
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| In Catalog Requests, jennnifer writes:
| | […]
Many sellers state on their splash pages or in their store terms that they
do not differentiate between similar molds. This is entirely up to the seller
and has nothing to do with the BL catalog or policies.
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I’d say it has because it messes up the Price Guide.
I’d say it has because I remember Russell saying so.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | jennnifer | | Posted: | Jul 17, 2021 09:49 | | Subject: | Re: 48723 and 68888 are not the same mold? | | Viewed: | 36 times | | Topic: | Catalog Requests | |
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| In Catalog Requests, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Catalog Requests, jennnifer writes:
| | […]
Many sellers state on their splash pages or in their store terms that they
do not differentiate between similar molds. This is entirely up to the seller
and has nothing to do with the BL catalog or policies.
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I’d say it has because it messes up the Price Guide.
I’d say it has because I remember Russell saying so.
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Oh, I agree! I wasn't saying that it was okay to do this. I was saying that
it is entirely the seller's issue and is not the fault of our catalog. The
OP was seeming to say that because these items had a similar relationship, that
they got the wrong part from their seller. That is very, very not true.
Jen
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Jul 17, 2021 09:55 | | Subject: | Re: 48723 and 68888 are not the same mold? | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Catalog Requests | |
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| In Catalog Requests, jennnifer writes:
| | In Catalog Requests, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Catalog Requests, jennnifer writes:
| | […]
Many sellers state on their splash pages or in their store terms that they
do not differentiate between similar molds. This is entirely up to the seller
and has nothing to do with the BL catalog or policies.
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I’d say it has because it messes up the Price Guide.
I’d say it has because I remember Russell saying so.
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Oh, I agree! I wasn't saying that it was okay to do this. I was saying that
it is entirely the seller's issue and is not the fault of our catalog. The
OP was seeming to say that because these items had a similar relationship, that
they got the wrong part from their seller. That is very, very not true.
Jen
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Oh, okay, so, yes, it’s the seller that’s at fault, but I don’t totally agree
the catalogue isn’t: there’s variants some buyers don’t care about, or sometimes.
It should be easier to know which ones are okay and which are not, a better way
than the presence of an undetermined entry.
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| | | | | Author: | randyf | | Posted: | Jul 17, 2021 15:20 | | Subject: | Re: 48723 and 68888 are not the same mold? | | Viewed: | 27 times | | Topic: | Catalog Requests | |
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| In Catalog Requests, pgremeau writes:
| | This is regarding and which both refer to the other part
as "This Item is similar in mold type to the following Item(s)".
But 48723 has an anti-stud (which btw is not a "Pin Hole") and therefore has
a slightly thicker central part. You can see it on the diff pictures (even on
the part pictures themselves) that their heights are different.
Can we change this? Otherwise sellers are going to sell either parts under either
part ids...
Thanks!
|
Since there is nothing to change here, and the catalog is correct as is, this
request has been marked as "Already Exists".
Cheers,
Randy
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| | | | | | | Author: | pgremeau | | Posted: | Jul 17, 2021 15:23 | | Subject: | Re: 48723 and 68888 are not the same mold? | | Viewed: | 30 times | | Topic: | Catalog Requests | |
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| In Catalog Requests, randyf writes:
| | Since there is nothing to change here, and the catalog is correct as is, this
request has been marked as "Already Exists".
Cheers,
Randy
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Sounds good, Thanks!
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USA, California
Germany, Niedersachsen
France, Nouvelle-Aquitaine
