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| | | Author: | Teup  | | Posted: | Jul 15, 2021 04:18 | | Subject: | OSS registration | | Viewed: | 178 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| I wonder what happens when you register for the OSS. Does it mean that from that
point you are obligated to use it (ie. count VAT per country, at each
individual country's VAT rates), or does it mean you just have access
to that tax reporting environment?
I am asking because in the latter case, nobody needs to be "banned" unnecessarily.
Some sellers don't need to use the new system but Bricklink will say they
do (I am thinking about margin VAT sellers, and possibly sellers who sold over
the limit last year but will not do so this year). If they just register for
the OSS and provide the ID in their profile, they can continue to sell and they
can decide for themselves whether to use it or not.
Margin VAT sellers could just enter their VAT and OSS ID if Bricklink requires
it and continue to sell as before. The only real difference would be export out
of the EU, where the seller misses out on the full (19%-27%) VAT amount. They
could compensate by higher shipping rates though. Far from perfect but significantly
better than not being able to sell here at all.
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| | | | | Author: | kaat | | Posted: | Jul 15, 2021 05:04 | | Subject: | Re: OSS registration | | Viewed: | 77 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| When you register for OSS, "unieregeling" in dutch, it means you will be required
to submit a report every quarter for qualifying sales (and pay the corresponding
VAT). You can of course submit a 0-report, but you will have to report every
quarter. Exactly like the normal VAT procedures.
I don't think there is such a thing as a OSS id. In the confirmation letter
they say they registered my VAT id as a member of the "unieregeling" and tell
me to report every quarter via their site. That's it.
OSS is optional anyway, and if you don't use it, you will have to get a local
VAT id for every member state that you sell to. You can't enter all those
in BrickLink. Although it's safe to assume no one will want to register 27
times and file so many reports.
The real issue is: you still have to enter your VAT id and that has some static
consequences on BL: it removes VAT from prices outside EU and shows "including
VAT" while that might not be true for margin scheme products.
One way or the other, BrickLink should provide a few switches that can control
the VAT feature to make it more flexible.
- VAT on Used lots yes/no
- Use seller's VAT rate or Buyer's VAT rate
Etc
In Selling, Teup writes:
| | I wonder what happens when you register for the OSS. Does it mean that from that
point you are obligated to use it (ie. count VAT per country, at each
individual country's VAT rates), or does it mean you just have access
to that tax reporting environment?
I am asking because in the latter case, nobody needs to be "banned" unnecessarily.
Some sellers don't need to use the new system but Bricklink will say they
do (I am thinking about margin VAT sellers, and possibly sellers who sold over
the limit last year but will not do so this year). If they just register for
the OSS and provide the ID in their profile, they can continue to sell and they
can decide for themselves whether to use it or not.
Margin VAT sellers could just enter their VAT and OSS ID if Bricklink requires
it and continue to sell as before. The only real difference would be export out
of the EU, where the seller misses out on the full (19%-27%) VAT amount. They
could compensate by higher shipping rates though. Far from perfect but significantly
better than not being able to sell here at all.
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| | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Jul 15, 2021 05:33 | | Subject: | Re: OSS registration | | Viewed: | 63 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, kaat writes:
| | When you register for OSS, "unieregeling" in dutch, it means you will be required
to submit a report every quarter for qualifying sales (and pay the corresponding
VAT). You can of course submit a 0-report, but you will have to report every
quarter. Exactly like the normal VAT procedures.
I don't think there is such a thing as a OSS id. In the confirmation letter
they say they registered my VAT id as a member of the "unieregeling" and tell
me to report every quarter via their site. That's it.
|
Ok, still I wonder, is it OK to register, file a 0-report as you say, and report
the EU VAT the way you always did it, since you're staying under the €10000?
Or does registering mean "OK, I am now obligated to use the new system"?
| |
OSS is optional anyway, and if you don't use it, you will have to get a local
VAT id for every member state that you sell to. You can't enter all those
in BrickLink. Although it's safe to assume no one will want to register 27
times and file so many reports.
|
Good point, there is at least no 1 way for Bricklink to determine the seller
met their obligations. There could be sellers who just ship to 3 countries and
are willing to register there. But then Bricklink has to check they don't
expand their shipping countries. Either way Bricklink IS offering the option
of doing it without OSS, so that means there will be no 1 single way they're
checking you met your obliations or not.
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The real issue is: you still have to enter your VAT id and that has some static
consequences on BL: it removes VAT from prices outside EU and shows "including
VAT" while that might not be true for margin scheme products.
One way or the other, BrickLink should provide a few switches that can control
the VAT feature to make it more flexible.
- VAT on Used lots yes/no
- Use seller's VAT rate or Buyer's VAT rate
Etc
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True.
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In Selling, Teup writes:
| | I wonder what happens when you register for the OSS. Does it mean that from that
point you are obligated to use it (ie. count VAT per country, at each
individual country's VAT rates), or does it mean you just have access
to that tax reporting environment?
I am asking because in the latter case, nobody needs to be "banned" unnecessarily.
Some sellers don't need to use the new system but Bricklink will say they
do (I am thinking about margin VAT sellers, and possibly sellers who sold over
the limit last year but will not do so this year). If they just register for
the OSS and provide the ID in their profile, they can continue to sell and they
can decide for themselves whether to use it or not.
Margin VAT sellers could just enter their VAT and OSS ID if Bricklink requires
it and continue to sell as before. The only real difference would be export out
of the EU, where the seller misses out on the full (19%-27%) VAT amount. They
could compensate by higher shipping rates though. Far from perfect but significantly
better than not being able to sell here at all.
|
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Jul 15, 2021 07:35 | | Subject: | Re: OSS registration | | Viewed: | 59 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, Teup writes:
| | […]
Ok, still I wonder, is it OK to register, file a 0-report as you say, and report
the EU VAT the way you always did it, since you're staying under the €10000?
Or does registering mean "OK, I am now obligated to use the new system"?
|
My understanding is that when you’re registered, you’re obligated to collect.
It’s the same thing with domestic VAT registration: there’s a threshold above
which you’re obligated to register, but you can choose to register below, and
if you choose to, then you need to follow the rules, even if you stay under the
threshold.
VAT registration is a status: by registering, you declare you need to or want
to have that status. Once you have it, you have to act it… or you need to de-register
/ change your status.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | leggodtshop | | Posted: | Jul 15, 2021 08:03 | | Subject: | Re: OSS registration | | Viewed: | 50 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Selling, Teup writes:
| | […]
Ok, still I wonder, is it OK to register, file a 0-report as you say, and report
the EU VAT the way you always did it, since you're staying under the €10000?
Or does registering mean "OK, I am now obligated to use the new system"?
|
My understanding is that when you’re registered, you’re obligated to collect.
It’s the same thing with domestic VAT registration: there’s a threshold above
which you’re obligated to register, but you can choose to register below, and
if you choose to, then you need to follow the rules, even if you stay under the
threshold.
VAT registration is a status: by registering, you declare you need to or want
to have that status. Once you have it, you have to act it… or you need to de-register
/ change your status.
|
Correct. And then there is the Small business registration (Kleine ondernemings
regeling, Kleinunternehmung). If registered as Small business you are not allowed
to charge or declare VAT.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Jul 15, 2021 08:31 | | Subject: | Re: OSS registration | | Viewed: | 56 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, patpendlego writes:
| | In Selling, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Selling, Teup writes:
| | […]
Ok, still I wonder, is it OK to register, file a 0-report as you say, and report
the EU VAT the way you always did it, since you're staying under the €10000?
Or does registering mean "OK, I am now obligated to use the new system"?
|
My understanding is that when you’re registered, you’re obligated to collect.
It’s the same thing with domestic VAT registration: there’s a threshold above
which you’re obligated to register, but you can choose to register below, and
if you choose to, then you need to follow the rules, even if you stay under the
threshold.
VAT registration is a status: by registering, you declare you need to or want
to have that status. Once you have it, you have to act it… or you need to de-register
/ change your status.
|
Correct. And then there is the Small business registration (Kleine ondernemings
regeling, Kleinunternehmung). If registered as Small business you are not allowed
to charge or declare VAT.
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Indeed, there’s other business statuses than VAT-registered. When I said “de-register,”
I meant “de-VAT-register” / get out of the VAT status you’re in.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Jul 15, 2021 11:07 | | Subject: | Re: OSS registration | | Viewed: | 61 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Selling, patpendlego writes:
| | In Selling, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Selling, Teup writes:
| | […]
Ok, still I wonder, is it OK to register, file a 0-report as you say, and report
the EU VAT the way you always did it, since you're staying under the €10000?
Or does registering mean "OK, I am now obligated to use the new system"?
|
My understanding is that when you’re registered, you’re obligated to collect.
It’s the same thing with domestic VAT registration: there’s a threshold above
which you’re obligated to register, but you can choose to register below, and
if you choose to, then you need to follow the rules, even if you stay under the
threshold.
VAT registration is a status: by registering, you declare you need to or want
to have that status. Once you have it, you have to act it… or you need to de-register
/ change your status.
|
Correct. And then there is the Small business registration (Kleine ondernemings
regeling, Kleinunternehmung). If registered as Small business you are not allowed
to charge or declare VAT.
|
Indeed, there’s other business statuses than VAT-registered. When I said “de-register,”
I meant “de-VAT-register” / get out of the VAT status you’re in.
|
Ok, thanks, I guess that makes sense. So registering and not using it is not
an option. I suppose we could still do it the old way here (= report all EU sales
as if they are domestic sales) but after an OSS registration I can imagine the
authorities won't be too happy about that. Guess I will wait with my registration
until 2022.
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| | | | | | | Author: | Stellar | | Posted: | Jul 15, 2021 05:40 | | Subject: | Re: OSS registration | | Viewed: | 62 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, kaat writes:
| | When you register for OSS, "unieregeling" in dutch, it means you will be required
to submit a report every quarter for qualifying sales (and pay the corresponding
VAT). You can of course submit a 0-report, but you will have to report every
quarter. Exactly like the normal VAT procedures.
I don't think there is such a thing as a OSS id. In the confirmation letter
they say they registered my VAT id as a member of the "unieregeling" and tell
me to report every quarter via their site. That's it.
|
As far as I know, and I have seen the form to submit the sales here in Spain,
no, the is no such thing as OSS ID, it is just your VAT ID.
| |
OSS is optional anyway, and if you don't use it, you will have to get a local
VAT id for every member state that you sell to. You can't enter all those
in BrickLink. Although it's safe to assume no one will want to register 27
times and file so many reports.
|
It's optional before the 10.000€, but I don't know if you register to
be able to report it then you need to charge Buyer VAT rate to all transactions.
Just in case I already updated my accounting software to handle all sales with
the buyer country VAT.
| |
The real issue is: you still have to enter your VAT id and that has some static
consequences on BL: it removes VAT from prices outside EU and shows "including
VAT" while that might not be true for margin scheme products.
One way or the other, BrickLink should provide a few switches that can control
the VAT feature to make it more flexible.
- VAT on Used lots yes/no
- Use seller's VAT rate or Buyer's VAT rate
Etc
|
That settings would be a must for Bricklink, I don't know how they can send
an email to all saying you must register withing 30 days your VAT-ID if you sell
more than 10.000 EUR in distance EU sales, but not provide the appropriate setting
to charge the Buyer VAT rate you are obligated when surpassing such 10.000 EU
sales...
Seems like just a piece of the pie...
PD: About margin sales, what I would do if I were Bricklink:
As Admin_Russell said that they will contact each store privately that meets
the threshold, they should have a backend setting to mark that store is using
a Margin Scheme if they provide proof, and let them be not VAT registered with
the BL setting.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Jul 15, 2021 07:45 | | Subject: | Re: OSS registration | | Viewed: | 67 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, Stellar writes:
| | […]
| | I don't think there is such a thing as a OSS id. In the confirmation letter
they say they registered my VAT id as a member of the "unieregeling" and tell
me to report every quarter via their site. That's it.
|
As far as I know, and I have seen the form to submit the sales here in Spain,
no, the is no such thing as OSS ID, it is just your VAT ID.
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“What’s in a name…”
The OSS ID is indeed your VAT ID, the name is “OSS VAT ID.”
Same thing with IOSS ID (ImportOSS, for marketplaces), the complete name is “IOSS
VAT ID.”
It’s a bit like your “Intra-EU VAT ID” which is just your domestic VAT ID….
| | […]
It's optional before the 10.000€, but I don't know if you register to
be able to report it then you need to charge Buyer VAT rate to all transactions.
Just in case I already updated my accounting software to handle all sales with
the buyer country VAT.
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I think you need, see my answer to Teup: https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1295180
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | DarioCruz | | Posted: | Jul 16, 2021 09:04 | | Subject: | Re: OSS registration | | Viewed: | 45 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| Hello
Can you tell me whats your accounting software that works whith bricklink???
Thanks in advance
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Stellar | | Posted: | Jul 16, 2021 10:50 | | Subject: | Re: OSS registration | | Viewed: | 50 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, DarioCruz writes:
| | Hello
Can you tell me whats your accounting software that works whith bricklink???
Thanks in advance
|
I have used a few, but none work/connect with Bricklink, you need to handle the
information by yourself, by hand or by API that you need to code for sending
data from one to the other.
If you do it by hand, be careful with the Orders Download file. Some orders have
0.01€ up or down different to what the buyer actually paid. There is a bug somewhere.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | kaat | | Posted: | Jul 16, 2021 12:39 | | Subject: | Re: OSS registration | | Viewed: | 55 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, Stellar writes:
| | If you do it by hand, be careful with the Orders Download file. Some orders have
0.01€ up or down different to what the buyer actually paid. There is a bug somewhere.
|
The same issue is in the API, that has sometimes has a different amount compared
to the UI. It looks like all amounts that make up the total, are rounded first
in the UI and then everything is add up. The API seems to first add up and then
round. And yes, that make a difference.
Since I wrote this piece of (Typescript) code to calculate the order total, it
never went wrong again 
calculateBrickLinkUiTotal(order) {
return this.round(order.disp_cost.subtotal)
+ this.round(order.disp_cost.shipping)
+ this.round(order.disp_cost.etc1)
+ this.round(order.disp_cost.etc2)
+ this.round(order.disp_cost.insurance)
- this.round(order.disp_cost.credit)
- this.round(order.disp_cost.coupon);
}
Easy to port to another language. Simply add/subtract all the mentioned fields.
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| | | | | Author: | leggodtshop | | Posted: | Jul 15, 2021 07:18 | | Subject: | Re: OSS registration | | Viewed: | 48 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, Teup writes:
[snip]
| |
Margin VAT sellers could just enter their VAT and OSS ID if Bricklink requires
it and continue to sell as before. The only real difference would be export out
of the EU, where the seller misses out on the full (19%-27%) VAT amount. They
could compensate by higher shipping rates though. Far from perfect but significantly
better than not being able to sell here at all.
|
I will for sure NOT registed my VAT ID at BrickLink. Who knows what they will
do as q consequence.. charge VAT on orders? All items I sell fall under margin
regulation and are therefore NOT liable for VAT. BrickLink needs to keep their
hands OFF.
OSS is obliged when selling 10k or more in the EU, margin goods do NOT cound
for that threshold.
This round margin goods are not part of the changes, maybe a next round but not
now.
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| | | | | | | Author: | m4rtinb | | Posted: | Nov 30, 2021 06:02 | | Subject: | Re: OSS registration | | Viewed: | 41 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| Hi interesting discussion, and I have still a lot of questions:
I sell margin goods and I sell vat goods, so than it seems the best for me to
open a new store?
Sell margin goods in store 1 and vat goods in store 2?
-But when store 1 exceeds the 10.000 sales, will BL still demands oss registration?
Because thats not needed selling margin goods, because margin goods are not distance
sales (afstandverkopen).
-And will BL account margin goods as VAT goods, so when I sell margin goods outside
EU, BL automatically deducts 21% vat? That would be bad of course.
I sent some mails before to BL, but no reaction in this.
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Netherlands, Utrecht
France, Nouvelle-Aquitaine
Spain, Comunidad Valenciana
Portugal
