Discussion Forum: Thread 291752

 Author: Admin_Russell View Messages Posted By Admin_Russell
 Posted: Jun 23, 2021 14:23
 Subject: BrickLink and the new EU VAT e-commerce rules
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Admin_Russell

Location:  USA, California
Member Since Contact Type Status
May 9, 2017 Contact Member Admin
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
BrickLink Administrator
BrickLink VAT Changes Due to new EU VAT e-commerce Rules

Dear BrickLink members,

Following the introduction of the new rules for online marketplaces, BrickLink
will enable its VAT collection for goods imported into the European Union (EU)
on July 1, 2021 to comply with the new EU VAT Marketplace rules. Below is an
overview of these changes:

Changes at a glance:

1) EU buyers will see VAT exclusive prices from non-EU sellers and EU buyers
will see VAT inclusive prices from VAT-registered EU sellers.

2) BrickLink will collect and remit VAT on orders delivered to EU addresses imported
into their EU Member State from a non-EU country up to a value of €150 (not including
additional costs i.e. shipping insurance, etc.). For orders over €150 imported
to their EU Member State, the seller/buyer may need to pay VAT consistent with
the import country’s standard VAT rate as part of clearing the goods through
customs.

3) EU VAT will be added during the checkout process (where applicable) and at
the receipt of the final invoice and will not be included in the item price.

4) Where BrickLink is responsible for collecting VAT on orders sent to an EU
delivery address, this amount will be shown separately at checkout.

5) EU sellers that sell more than €10,000 of goods within the EU (but excluding
domestic transactions) per year will be required to be VAT registered in each
EU Member State it sells to or will need to register for the One Stop Shop (OSS)
scheme.


What this means for sellers:

1) If you are a non-EU seller and you want to sell goods to EU buyers, you will
need to opt-in to BrickLink’s on-site payment method.

2) In case of refunds, we encourage sellers to use the BrickLink refund feature
to ensure the correct amount of VAT gets refunded. The refund page can be accessed
from the Issue Refund link on the order detail page.

3) Sellers should list the items in their inventory exclusive of VAT and any
other taxes/fees to ensure price consistency in the Price Guide.

More information will be posted on dedicated Help and FAQ pages closer to the
release date.

Thank you,

The BrickLink Team
 Author: jennnifer View Messages Posted By jennnifer
 Posted: Jun 23, 2021 14:34
 Subject: Re: BrickLink and the new EU VAT e-commerce rules
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jennnifer (3136)

Location:  USA, Illinois
Member Since Contact Type Status
Sep 8, 2009 Contact Member Seller
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Store: Old Grey Bricks
Please be sure to update all the seller information regarding invoicing for this
process. We need the macro pages updated and correct. We need to know if necessary
changes will be applied to the default invoice template.

There is no information currently available regarding the UK VAT collection and
seller invoices!

https://www.bricklink.com/messageThread.asp?ID=291487&nID=1276733

Our invoices were messed up when you added Sales Tax.
Our invoices are messed up from the UK VAT collection.

Please break this trend and address this issue for sellers. We need confidence
that our invoicing and payments are correct.

Jen
 Author: swilhelm View Messages Posted By swilhelm
 Posted: Jun 23, 2021 14:57
 Subject: Re: BrickLink and the new EU VAT e-commerce rules
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swilhelm (1)

Location:  USA, California
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Mar 1, 2021 Contact Member Seller
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Store Closed Store: swilhelm
Hello Jen, there is no strict regulation on invoicing for the new EU VAT e-commerce
rules. BrickLink will be providing a receipt on orders, but invoices are not
required to be presented at this time. BrickLink will be publishing a Help page
with more details as we get closer to the release date.
-Steve
 Author: peregrinator View Messages Posted By peregrinator
 Posted: Jun 23, 2021 15:00
 Subject: Re: BrickLink and the new EU VAT e-commerce rules
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peregrinator (456)

Location:  USA, New Jersey
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Store: Faber Family Bricks
In Administrative, swilhelm writes:
  Hello Jen, there is no strict regulation on invoicing for the new EU VAT e-commerce
rules. BrickLink will be providing a receipt on orders, but invoices are not
required to be presented at this time. BrickLink will be publishing a Help page
with more details as we get closer to the release date.
-Steve

I think she is referring to the invoice to be sent from the seller to the buyer
- not the invoice goes with the package for proof of VAT's being collected
 Author: SylvainLS View Messages Posted By SylvainLS
 Posted: Jun 23, 2021 15:11
 Subject: Re: BrickLink and the new EU VAT e-commerce rules
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SylvainLS (38)

Location:  France, Nouvelle-Aquitaine
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BrickLink Discussions Moderator (?)
In Administrative, peregrinator writes:
  In Administrative, swilhelm writes:
  Hello Jen, there is no strict regulation on invoicing for the new EU VAT e-commerce
rules. BrickLink will be providing a receipt on orders, but invoices are not
required to be presented at this time. BrickLink will be publishing a Help page
with more details as we get closer to the release date.
-Steve

I think she is referring to the invoice to be sent from the seller to the buyer
- not the invoice goes with the package for proof of VAT's being collected

Yes, to be precise, when the seller has customized the layout of their “requests
for payment” that are called “invoices” everywhere on BL (settings, messages,
help…), the new fields (ST & VAT) are missing.

And when Sales tax was implemented, the fact that the fields were missing broke
the invoicing process: sellers couldn’t invoice anymore, without knowing why.

And when UK VAT was implemented, rebelote, broken again.
 Author: swilhelm View Messages Posted By swilhelm
 Posted: Jun 23, 2021 15:25
 Subject: Re: BrickLink and the new EU VAT e-commerce rules
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swilhelm (1)

Location:  USA, California
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Thanks for the clarification. We will be looking into that issue.
 Author: jennnifer View Messages Posted By jennnifer
 Posted: Jun 24, 2021 10:39
 Subject: Re: BrickLink and the new EU VAT e-commerce rules
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jennnifer (3136)

Location:  USA, Illinois
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Store: Old Grey Bricks
In Administrative, swilhelm writes:
  Thanks for the clarification. We will be looking into that issue.

Sigh...

Sellers without Instant Checkout send invoices. They are generated from
a template from this page:

https://www.bricklink.com/v2/mystore/message_templates.page

I know no one at BrickLink looks at this page because it has had a typo for at
least 4 years.
You can choose the default template or create your own. There are two different
sets of macro tags that sellers can use to customize what their customers see.

The last two payment updates broke this system. The US sales tax was fixed behind
the scenes (or I completely missed any announcement) The UK Vat update is not
yet working with this system. I linked to that discussion in my original post,
but I guess you missed that.

https://www.bricklink.com/messageThread.asp?ID=291487&nID=1276733

Here are some threads to read of the history of what has happened.

https://www.bricklink.com/messageThread.asp?ID=276205&nID=1225916
https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1227684

You will want to be sure the new system also works with Quotes!

If anyone on the Panel is reading this, please emphasize to BL how important
it is to have a seller involved with site updates and beta testing.

Jen
 Author: macebobo View Messages Posted By macebobo
 Posted: Jun 24, 2021 12:27
 Subject: Re: BrickLink and the new EU VAT e-commerce rules
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macebobo (1131)

Location:  USA, Oregon
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Store: MacsBricks
In Administrative, jennnifer writes:
  In Administrative, swilhelm writes:
  Thanks for the clarification. We will be looking into that issue.

Sigh...

Sellers without Instant Checkout send invoices. They are generated from
a template from this page:

https://www.bricklink.com/v2/mystore/message_templates.page

I know no one at BrickLink looks at this page because it has had a typo for at
least 4 years.

How do you spell isssued, Jen?

-- John
 Author: jennnifer View Messages Posted By jennnifer
 Posted: Jun 24, 2021 12:52
 Subject: Re: BrickLink and the new EU VAT e-commerce rules
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jennnifer (3136)

Location:  USA, Illinois
Member Since Contact Type Status
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Store: Old Grey Bricks
In Administrative, macebobo writes:
  In Administrative, jennnifer writes:
  In Administrative, swilhelm writes:
  Thanks for the clarification. We will be looking into that issue.

Sigh...

Sellers without Instant Checkout send invoices. They are generated from
a template from this page:

https://www.bricklink.com/v2/mystore/message_templates.page

I know no one at BrickLink looks at this page because it has had a typo for at
least 4 years.

How do you spell isssued, Jen?

-- John

Same way as my name! With lots of extra consonants.

Jen
 Author: jancg View Messages Posted By jancg
 Posted: Jun 23, 2021 16:32
 Subject: Re: BrickLink and the new EU VAT e-commerce rules
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jancg (359)

Location:  Netherlands, Noord-Holland
Member Since Contact Type Status
Nov 6, 2004 Contact Member Seller
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Store: Out of production
BrickLink,

Would it be possible to (also) have a smaller version of the 'Download VAT
invoice' PDF? This one is A4/Letter size and simply doesn't fit on a
small (quarter Letter size) envelope.

Can you make the 'VAT invoice' available from the BrickLink API?

Kind regards,
Jan from 'Out of Production'.
 Author: jancg View Messages Posted By jancg
 Posted: Jun 23, 2021 16:34
 Subject: Re: BrickLink and the new EU VAT e-commerce rules
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jancg (359)

Location:  Netherlands, Noord-Holland
Member Since Contact Type Status
Nov 6, 2004 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: Out of production
BrickLink,

Will BrickLink also support IBAN in combination with automated VAT collection?

Kind regards,
Jan from 'Out of Production'.
 Author: SylvainLS View Messages Posted By SylvainLS
 Posted: Jun 23, 2021 16:41
 Subject: Re: BrickLink and the new EU VAT e-commerce rules
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SylvainLS (38)

Location:  France, Nouvelle-Aquitaine
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In Administrative, jancg writes:
  BrickLink,

Will BrickLink also support IBAN in combination with automated VAT collection?

Is there many non-EU sellers who offer non-prohibitive bank transfers / “IBAN”?

(Norway, UK, Switzerland, and?)
 Author: jancg View Messages Posted By jancg
 Posted: Jun 23, 2021 17:17
 Subject: Re: BrickLink and the new EU VAT e-commerce rules
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jancg (359)

Location:  Netherlands, Noord-Holland
Member Since Contact Type Status
Nov 6, 2004 Contact Member Seller
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Store: Out of production
SylvainLS,

Thanks for your painful 'spot on' response.

I completely overlooked the "non-EU" in "non-EU sellers".

@BrickLink: You may disregard my request/proposal.

Kind regards, Jan.
 Author: SylvainLS View Messages Posted By SylvainLS
 Posted: Jun 23, 2021 17:47
 Subject: Re: BrickLink and the new EU VAT e-commerce rules
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SylvainLS (38)

Location:  France, Nouvelle-Aquitaine
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Store Closed Store: BuyerOnly
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In Administrative, jancg writes:
  SylvainLS,

Thanks for your painful 'spot on' response.

Sorry that my answer was painful / sounded sarcastic, it wasn’t intended (bad
habit on my part I guess: I phrase everything sarcastically ).

My question can also be reversed: How many buyers in “tax-collected” countries
would want to pay with bank transfers?
BL collects (or will soon collect) taxes for USA, UK, and EU.  But there are
other countries with marketplace laws, like Norway, New-Zealand, South Africa,
and more will follow.

So knowing how many sellers offer bank transfers for those buyers should be interesting.

Also, we have had several discussions here about “on-site” IBAN/bank transfers,
and not only because of tax collection.  So if there’s a significant portion
of transactions on BL that are or were made by bank transfer but are or will
be “tax-collected,” that would be a reason more to have “on-site” bank transfers.
(Not even taking intou account the belief that forced tax collection will one
day be generalized.)


  I completely overlooked the "non-EU" in "non-EU sellers".

@BrickLink: You may disregard my request/proposal.

Kind regards, Jan.
 Author: Teup View Messages Posted By Teup
 Posted: Jun 23, 2021 18:54
 Subject: Re: BrickLink and the new EU VAT e-commerce rules
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Teup (5650)

Location:  Netherlands, Utrecht
Member Since Contact Type Status
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Store Closed Store: BLOKJESKONING
I keep saying it, Bricklink is doing it backwards. First force sellers to go
with the few (two?) onsite payment methods they offer and THEN look into expanding
the payment methods... how about FIRST adding relevant onsite payment methods
(this is literally an hour of work at most) and THEN see if there's anyone
left who's not on board with onsite payments? Don't know about other
countries but I'm pretty sure most countries have onsite payment in their
local webshops. I don't think there are many countries where people have
to go into their online banking in order to pay for orders they placed in webshops.
For example, you can abolish offsite payment completely for the Netherlands,
when you add iDEAL. This would be a much easier kind of transition.

But I've been a stuck record on this for many years.. seems it's too
logical for Bricklink or something...


In Administrative, SylvainLS writes:
  In Administrative, jancg writes:
  SylvainLS,

Thanks for your painful 'spot on' response.

Sorry that my answer was painful / sounded sarcastic, it wasn’t intended (bad
habit on my part I guess: I phrase everything sarcastically ).

My question can also be reversed: How many buyers in “tax-collected” countries
would want to pay with bank transfers?
BL collects (or will soon collect) taxes for USA, UK, and EU.  But there are
other countries with marketplace laws, like Norway, New-Zealand, South Africa,
and more will follow.

So knowing how many sellers offer bank transfers for those buyers should be interesting.

Also, we have had several discussions here about “on-site” IBAN/bank transfers,
and not only because of tax collection.  So if there’s a significant portion
of transactions on BL that are or were made by bank transfer but are or will
be “tax-collected,” that would be a reason more to have “on-site” bank transfers.
(Not even taking intou account the belief that forced tax collection will one
day be generalized.)


  I completely overlooked the "non-EU" in "non-EU sellers".

@BrickLink: You may disregard my request/proposal.

Kind regards, Jan.
 Author: cosmicray View Messages Posted By cosmicray
 Posted: Jun 23, 2021 17:48
 Subject: Re: BrickLink and the new EU VAT e-commerce rules
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cosmicray (3311)

Location:  USA, Florida
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In Administrative, Admin_Russell writes:

Thank you for the update !

  1) EU buyers will see VAT exclusive prices from non-EU sellers and EU buyers
will see VAT inclusive prices from VAT-registered EU sellers.

For my own curiosity, what will a random web browser display, when the prospective
buyer is not logged into their account ? IOW, is there a default behavior, or
are you attempting to pre-select the display mode via IP address ?

In a different vein, what happens when an EU registered member, is buying via
a freight forwarder in the USA ? The address for shipment will likely be Oregon
or Delaware. Will it behave as tho VAT is not in play, and no sales tax, as those
states do not collect it.

Nita Rae
 Author: Bricks_NW_UK View Messages Posted By Bricks_NW_UK
 Posted: Jun 23, 2021 18:06
 Subject: Re: BrickLink and the new EU VAT e-commerce rules
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Bricks_NW_UK (947)

Location:  United Kingdom, England
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I think we will be seeing the end of many international sales going forward and
not just in Bricklink.

It is becoming harder and harder to post abroad now.
 Author: wildchicken13 View Messages Posted By wildchicken13
 Posted: Jun 23, 2021 18:17
 Subject: Re: BrickLink and the new EU VAT e-commerce rules
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wildchicken13 (859)

Location:  USA, Illinois
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In Administrative, Bricks_NW_UK writes:
  I think we will be seeing the end of many international sales going forward and
not just in Bricklink.

It is becoming harder and harder to post abroad now.

Ain't stopping me from selling internationally.

Then again, I don't have much to sell. And I'm not in the UK.
 Author: SylvainLS View Messages Posted By SylvainLS
 Posted: Jun 23, 2021 18:09
 Subject: Re: BrickLink and the new EU VAT e-commerce rules
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SylvainLS (38)

Location:  France, Nouvelle-Aquitaine
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In Administrative, cosmicray writes:
  […]
For my own curiosity, what will a random web browser display, when the prospective
buyer is not logged into their account ? IOW, is there a default behavior, or
are you attempting to pre-select the display mode via IP address ?

https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=2137
IP address if not logged.
 Author: cosmicray View Messages Posted By cosmicray
 Posted: Jun 23, 2021 20:37
 Subject: Re: BrickLink and the new EU VAT e-commerce rules
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cosmicray (3311)

Location:  USA, Florida
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In Administrative, SylvainLS writes:
  In Administrative, cosmicray writes:
  […]
For my own curiosity, what will a random web browser display, when the prospective
buyer is not logged into their account ? IOW, is there a default behavior, or
are you attempting to pre-select the display mode via IP address ?

https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=2137
IP address if not logged.

After reading that, a buyer from FR (for example) could have their orders shipped
to a freight forwarder in Delaware, USA, and VAT would not be collected by BL.
Presumably the VAT then gets collected by customs ? Every order should go out
the door with an invoice, to make that work correctly.

Nita Rae
 Author: SylvainLS View Messages Posted By SylvainLS
 Posted: Jun 24, 2021 04:35
 Subject: Re: BrickLink and the new EU VAT e-commerce rules
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SylvainLS (38)

Location:  France, Nouvelle-Aquitaine
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In Administrative, cosmicray writes:
  […]
After reading that, a buyer from FR (for example) could have their orders shipped
to a freight forwarder in Delaware, USA, and VAT would not be collected by BL.
Presumably the VAT then gets collected by customs ? Every order should go out
the door with an invoice, to make that work correctly.

Freight forwarders are supposed to handle customs paperwork, no?
That would include VAT as import VAT is indeed collected by Customs.
I also guess that if you use a freight forwarder, the total amount of all you’re
importing is above €150 and you are due duty (tarif) too, and that is always
handled by Customs (and import VAT is due on duty).
 Author: Teup View Messages Posted By Teup
 Posted: Jun 23, 2021 18:41
 Subject: Re: BrickLink and the new EU VAT e-commerce rules
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Teup (5650)

Location:  Netherlands, Utrecht
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Good timely update, better than I expected it to go, although it's still
not very clear:

Most of all:

You mentioned the new law about VAT per EU country, but you did not mention the
most important part of it: Charging the VAT rate of the country of the buyer.
So, as the users have already pointed out, what they need is a system where they
as sellers can choose between A. charging the domestic VAT rate or B. charging
the VAT rate of the buyer's country - depending on whether their foreign
sales exceed 10K or not. I am assuming you are saying that this is coming, but
you didn't mention it explicitly, so maybe good to confirm that this is indeed
what's coming?

In Administrative, Admin_Russell writes:
  3) Sellers should list the items in their inventory exclusive of VAT and any
other taxes/fees to ensure price consistency in the Price Guide.


Say what? So we're switching to pricing WITHOUT VAT now, instead of VAT being
deducted FROM the specified prices? That's a pretty major change. It sounds
like a bad idea, if it really means what I fear it means
- so sellers all have to suddenly switch to setting ex.VAT prices? That's
terribly confusing, nobody thinks in ex-VAT prices.
- if you want to keep the priceguide consistent, then why change it? Right now
everybody understands that prices include VAT, so there is no inconsistency in
the priceguide.
 Author: SylvainLS View Messages Posted By SylvainLS
 Posted: Jun 23, 2021 19:09
 Subject: Re: BrickLink and the new EU VAT e-commerce rules
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SylvainLS (38)

Location:  France, Nouvelle-Aquitaine
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In Administrative, Teup writes:
  […]
Right now
everybody understands that prices include VAT, so there is no inconsistency in
the priceguide.

No, no one understands because no one knows which realized sales (last 6 mo)
included VAT or not, so averages are not predictive.

That is:
1. seller is EU & VAT registered, buyer is EU, VAT is included,
  an(other) EU buyer would have paid the same price,
  a non-EU buyer would have paid less,
2. seller is EU & VAT registered, buyer is not EU, 0% VAT,
  an EU buyer would have paid more,
  a(nother) non-EU buyer would have paid the same,
3. seller is EU & not VAT registered, VAT not applicable,
  any buyer would have paid the same price,
4. seller is non-EU,
  any buyer would have paid the same price… and EU buyers would have paid VAT
on reception, maybe.

Anyone looking at the last 6 months sales, and using it as gospel, thinking it’s
more “real” than the “for sale” prices, is sadly misguided.

(And if it doesn’t work this way (as it didn’t because, according https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1272079
, 2. was presented as 1.), then it’s even more broken and useless.)


And for “for sales” prices, non-EU prices don’t include VAT, EU prices do, and
so EU sellers are disadvantaged (look more expensive).
And as for removing VAT from everyone, I don’t think it’s legal to show EU prices
to EU buyers without VAT for items for sales, especially if you don’t say VAT
is excluded, but IANAL.
 Author: Teup View Messages Posted By Teup
 Posted: Jun 23, 2021 19:27
 Subject: Re: BrickLink and the new EU VAT e-commerce rules
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 Topic: Administrative
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Teup (5650)

Location:  Netherlands, Utrecht
Member Since Contact Type Status
May 6, 2004 Contact Member Seller
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Store Closed Store: BLOKJESKONING
In Administrative, SylvainLS writes:
  In Administrative, Teup writes:
  […]
Right now
everybody understands that prices include VAT, so there is no inconsistency in
the priceguide.

No, no one understands because no one knows which realized sales (last 6 mo)
included VAT or not, so averages are not predictive.

That is:
1. seller is EU & VAT registered, buyer is EU, VAT is included,
  an(other) EU buyer would have paid the same price,
  a non-EU buyer would have paid less,
2. seller is EU & VAT registered, buyer is not EU, 0% VAT,
  an EU buyer would have paid more,
  a(nother) non-EU buyer would have paid the same,
3. seller is EU & not VAT registered, VAT not applicable,
  any buyer would have paid the same price,
4. seller is non-EU,
  any buyer would have paid the same price… and EU buyers would have paid VAT
on reception, maybe.

Anyone looking at the last 6 months sales, and using it as gospel, thinking it’s
more “real” than the “for sale” prices, is sadly misguided.

(And if it doesn’t work this way (as it didn’t because, according https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1272079
, 2. was presented as 1.), then it’s even more broken and useless.)


And for “for sales” prices, non-EU prices don’t include VAT, EU prices do, and
so EU sellers are disadvantaged (look more expensive).
And as for removing VAT from everyone, I don’t think it’s legal to show EU prices
to EU buyers without VAT for items for sales, especially if you don’t say VAT
is excluded, but IANAL.

Yeah, I understand the PG is always a compromise and I also understand you can't
*display* ex.VAT prices (nor does BL intend to do that in stores, and also not
in the PG I think, because they're going to add VAT to the numbers depending
on who views it). But - and I may have understood this wrong - the idea is that
sellers' prices are now going to be ex.VAT - so they enter EUR 1 and it will
display EUR 1.2 to the EU buyer and EUR 1 to the ex-EU buyer. Instead of entering
EUR 1.2 an having that display EUR 1.2 to the EU buyer and EUR 1 to the non-EU
buyer. So basically switching things around from substraction to addition. That
will cause confusion with some sellers understanding it and some others having
missed the update. But maybe I misunderstood the point, but then it needs clarification
because that's what it says right now. Maybe they meant ex-EU sellers only?
 Author: cosmicray View Messages Posted By cosmicray
 Posted: Jun 24, 2021 08:14
 Subject: Re: BrickLink and the new EU VAT e-commerce rules
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 Topic: Administrative
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cosmicray (3311)

Location:  USA, Florida
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In Administrative, Teup writes:
  That
will cause confusion with some sellers understanding it and some others having
missed the update. But maybe I misunderstood the point, but then it needs clarification
because that's what it says right now. Maybe they meant ex-EU sellers only?

What may be needed, is some icon/emoji/emoticon that sits next to any displayed
number, to indicate it reflects VAT has been applied. In the PG, in the list
of available lots on a catalog page, and in a seller's store. That would
give viewers a ready reference why some prices appear different than others.
The tilde is not sufficient.

Nita Rae
 Author: kaat View Messages Posted By kaat
 Posted: Jun 24, 2021 03:49
 Subject: Re: BrickLink and the new EU VAT e-commerce rules
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 Topic: Administrative
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kaat (6234)

Location:  Netherlands, Zuid-Holland
Member Since Contact Type Status
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Store: ilovebricks.nl
  You mentioned the new law about VAT per EU country, but you did not mention the
most important part of it: Charging the VAT rate of the country of the buyer.
So, as the users have already pointed out, what they need is a system where they
as sellers can choose between A. charging the domestic VAT rate or B. charging
the VAT rate of the buyer's country - depending on whether their foreign
sales exceed 10K or not. I am assuming you are saying that this is coming, but
you didn't mention it explicitly, so maybe good to confirm that this is indeed
what's coming?

This EU VAT change has different angles. Let's focus here on the question
above, as I think it's a good one and relevant for every VAT enabled EU seller.

Given a VAT enabled store, that sells to buyers in the EU. What VAT percentage
is used? Currently, it is the VAT percentage of the country the seller is located
in. I'm located in NL, so it displays 21% VAT.

In the new situation we indeed have two options. Does BrickLink provide an option
to choose between the two? You should even be allowed to switch from 1 to 2 during
the year, as soon as you approach the 10K limit, aren't you?

The new options are:
1.EU sales excluding domestic are below 10K
Then I still need to do the same as today: charge 21% VAT to EU customers (based
on the VAT percentage of the sellers country). Report and pay to domestic tax
office, simple. No change.

2. EU sales excluding domestic are 10K or more
Now I need to charge the VAT % of the country of my buyer. Will BrickLink handle
this? So when I list an item for 1.00 euro, it will charge 1.19 to a German buyer
and 1.25 to a buyer from Croatia and 1.21 to a dutch buyer (etc etc).

As Russel mentions, either you register in every EU country you sell to (no one
will do that I guess) or you apply for the one-stop shop and do it in a single
country of choice. However, this should not make any difference for BrickLink.

About pricing:
Currently VAT enabled stores list their prices VAT inclusive. Do I understand
correctly we should reprice to prices excluding VAT?

So the example item that is now prices 1.21 will need to become 1.00. Is this
changed automatically when you release this update or do we need to do this manually?

What price will a buyer in the EU then see at a listing? It should be VAT inclusive
and not be simply added in the end.

Thanks for the info!
 Author: Teup View Messages Posted By Teup
 Posted: Jun 24, 2021 08:25
 Subject: Re: BrickLink and the new EU VAT e-commerce rules
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 Topic: Administrative
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Teup (5650)

Location:  Netherlands, Utrecht
Member Since Contact Type Status
May 6, 2004 Contact Member Seller
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Store Closed Store: BLOKJESKONING
In Administrative, kaat writes:
  
  You mentioned the new law about VAT per EU country, but you did not mention the
most important part of it: Charging the VAT rate of the country of the buyer.
So, as the users have already pointed out, what they need is a system where they
as sellers can choose between A. charging the domestic VAT rate or B. charging
the VAT rate of the buyer's country - depending on whether their foreign
sales exceed 10K or not. I am assuming you are saying that this is coming, but
you didn't mention it explicitly, so maybe good to confirm that this is indeed
what's coming?

This EU VAT change has different angles. Let's focus here on the question
above, as I think it's a good one and relevant for every VAT enabled EU seller.

Given a VAT enabled store, that sells to buyers in the EU. What VAT percentage
is used? Currently, it is the VAT percentage of the country the seller is located
in. I'm located in NL, so it displays 21% VAT.

In the new situation we indeed have two options. Does BrickLink provide an option
to choose between the two? You should even be allowed to switch from 1 to 2 during
the year, as soon as you approach the 10K limit, aren't you?

The new options are:
1.EU sales excluding domestic are below 10K
Then I still need to do the same as today: charge 21% VAT to EU customers (based
on the VAT percentage of the sellers country). Report and pay to domestic tax
office, simple. No change.

2. EU sales excluding domestic are 10K or more
Now I need to charge the VAT % of the country of my buyer. Will BrickLink handle
this? So when I list an item for 1.00 euro, it will charge 1.19 to a German buyer
and 1.25 to a buyer from Croatia and 1.21 to a dutch buyer (etc etc).

As Russel mentions, either you register in every EU country you sell to (no one
will do that I guess) or you apply for the one-stop shop and do it in a single
country of choice. However, this should not make any difference for BrickLink.

Yeah, Bricklink should just offer both options and I assume that's what they
will do. It's not a lot of hassle for them, because the whole VAT issue isn't
their problem. If someone would change the setting halfway the year, it becomes
quite messy for them and they have to write suppletive tax reports to correct
the tax already reported, but Bricklink will have nothing to do with any of that.
They just have to offer the two options.


  About pricing:
Currently VAT enabled stores list their prices VAT inclusive. Do I understand
correctly we should reprice to prices excluding VAT?

So the example item that is now prices 1.21 will need to become 1.00. Is this
changed automatically when you release this update or do we need to do this manually?

What price will a buyer in the EU then see at a listing? It should be VAT inclusive
and not be simply added in the end.

Thanks for the info!

If that is indeed what it means, I think it's a terrible idea. I don't
see any advantage. Why not just let sellers enter the VAT included price like
they have for the past decades? If they would change this there would be absolutely
no benefit. The system can easily infer the ex.VAT price, the same way it has
always done.
There may be unforseen consequences for sellers (e.g. syncing inventory with
BO through Bricksync will be ruined). But I assume we misunderstood the post,
because this change wouldn't have a single benefit to Bricklink. Probably
they mean non-EU sellers or something like that.
 Author: SylvainLS View Messages Posted By SylvainLS
 Posted: Jun 24, 2021 09:23
 Subject: Re: BrickLink and the new EU VAT e-commerce rules
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 Topic: Administrative
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SylvainLS (38)

Location:  France, Nouvelle-Aquitaine
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BrickLink Discussions Moderator (?)
In Administrative, Teup writes:
  […]
Yeah, Bricklink should just offer both options and I assume that's what they
will do. It's not a lot of hassle for them, because the whole VAT issue isn't
their problem. If someone would change the setting halfway the year, it becomes
quite messy for them and they have to write suppletive tax reports to correct
the tax already reported, but Bricklink will have nothing to do with any of that.
They just have to offer the two options.

“Just”: AFAICT the BL VAT option is very simple: you check the option, your country’s
rate is used.  You move country, you need to re-enable the option so that the
system uses the new rate.
So I don’t think it’s that simple to change.

BL absolutely needs to do it, but that’s the whole BL VAT option that needs to
be modified.
 Author: Stellar View Messages Posted By Stellar
 Posted: Jun 24, 2021 06:12
 Subject: Re: BrickLink and the new EU VAT e-commerce rules
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Stellar (2572)

Location:  Spain, Comunidad Valenciana
Member Since Contact Type Status
Sep 24, 2015 Contact Member Seller
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Store: Stellar Bricks
BrickLink Discussions Moderator (?)
In Administrative, Teup writes:
  Good timely update, better than I expected it to go, although it's still
not very clear:

Most of all:

You mentioned the new law about VAT per EU country, but you did not mention the
most important part of it: Charging the VAT rate of the country of the buyer.
So, as the users have already pointed out, what they need is a system where they
as sellers can choose between A. charging the domestic VAT rate or B. charging
the VAT rate of the buyer's country - depending on whether their foreign
sales exceed 10K or not. I am assuming you are saying that this is coming, but
you didn't mention it explicitly, so maybe good to confirm that this is indeed
what's coming?

In Administrative, Admin_Russell writes:
  3) Sellers should list the items in their inventory exclusive of VAT and any
other taxes/fees to ensure price consistency in the Price Guide.


Say what? So we're switching to pricing WITHOUT VAT now, instead of VAT being
deducted FROM the specified prices? That's a pretty major change. It sounds
like a bad idea, if it really means what I fear it means
- so sellers all have to suddenly switch to setting ex.VAT prices? That's
terribly confusing, nobody thinks in ex-VAT prices.
- if you want to keep the priceguide consistent, then why change it? Right now
everybody understands that prices include VAT, so there is no inconsistency in
the priceguide.

We need clarification on that, because that would be a huge game changer for
most VAT enabled stores...

Also, why not just update how the PG is displayed?

Options:

1. Maybe just show an indicator like a * next to the sale amount for the ones
that had VAT included. (100 *EUR 0.125)

2. To EU buyers show all the PG sales as if they where containing VAT. (VAT sales
as they are, and Excl. VAT sales with buyer VAT % added). And to non-EU Buyers
all sales as Excl. VAT.
 Author: calsbricks View Messages Posted By calsbricks
 Posted: Jun 24, 2021 02:41
 Subject: Re: BrickLink and the new EU VAT e-commerce rules
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 Topic: Administrative
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calsbricks (7513)

Location:  United Kingdom, England
Member Since Contact Type Status
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Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: CalsBricks
In Administrative, Admin_Russell writes:
  BrickLink VAT Changes Due to new EU VAT e-commerce Rules

Dear BrickLink members,

Following the introduction of the new rules for online marketplaces, BrickLink
will enable its VAT collection for goods imported into the European Union (EU)
on July 1, 2021 to comply with the new EU VAT Marketplace rules. Below is an
overview of these changes:

Changes at a glance:

1) EU buyers will see VAT exclusive prices from non-EU sellers and EU buyers
will see VAT inclusive prices from VAT-registered EU sellers.

2) BrickLink will collect and remit VAT on orders delivered to EU addresses imported
into their EU Member State from a non-EU country up to a value of €150 (not including
additional costs i.e. shipping insurance, etc.). For orders over €150 imported
to their EU Member State, the seller/buyer may need to pay VAT consistent with
the import country’s standard VAT rate as part of clearing the goods through
customs.

3) EU VAT will be added during the checkout process (where applicable) and at
the receipt of the final invoice and will not be included in the item price.

4) Where BrickLink is responsible for collecting VAT on orders sent to an EU
delivery address, this amount will be shown separately at checkout.

5) EU sellers that sell more than €10,000 of goods within the EU (but excluding
domestic transactions) per year will be required to be VAT registered in each
EU Member State it sells to or will need to register for the One Stop Shop (OSS)
scheme.


What this means for sellers:

1) If you are a non-EU seller and you want to sell goods to EU buyers, you will
need to opt-in to BrickLink’s on-site payment method.

2) In case of refunds, we encourage sellers to use the BrickLink refund feature
to ensure the correct amount of VAT gets refunded. The refund page can be accessed
from the Issue Refund link on the order detail page.

3) Sellers should list the items in their inventory exclusive of VAT and any
other taxes/fees to ensure price consistency in the Price Guide.

More information will be posted on dedicated Help and FAQ pages closer to the
release date.

Thank you,

The BrickLink Team

Hiya

Although not currently the 'law' for display of vat prices the recommended
practice is shown below.

Sites that sell to both consumers and businesses such as Staples ask the question
when you log on as to whether you wish to see vat inclusive or exclusive prices.
 


 Author: misbi View Messages Posted By misbi
 Posted: Jun 24, 2021 06:26
 Subject: Re: BrickLink and the new EU VAT e-commerce rules
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misbi (8098)

Location:  United Kingdom, Scotland
Member Since Contact Type Status Collage
Nov 25, 2001 Contact Member Seller
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Store: Brickshop UK
In order to ensure that buyers are not charged VAT for a second time when they
receive their orders, sellers will need to provide Bricklink's IOSS / VOEC
number etc on CN22 customs form.

Where and when will this information be provided to sellers? It would be helpful
to have this sooner rather than later, so that those of us who use APIs to generate
shipping label info, can complete the required coding in advance of July 1st.
 Author: SylvainLS View Messages Posted By SylvainLS
 Posted: Jun 24, 2021 06:52
 Subject: Re: BrickLink and the new EU VAT e-commerce rules
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SylvainLS (38)

Location:  France, Nouvelle-Aquitaine
Member Since Contact Type Status
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Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store Closed Store: BuyerOnly
BrickLink Discussions Moderator (?)
In Administrative, misbi writes:
  In order to ensure that buyers are not charged VAT for a second time when they
receive their orders, sellers will need to provide Bricklink's IOSS / VOEC
number etc on CN22 customs form.

Where and when will this information be provided to sellers? It would be helpful
to have this sooner rather than later, so that those of us who use APIs to generate
shipping label info, can complete the required coding in advance of July 1st.

I guess it’ll work as it works now for sales made by non-UK sellers to UK-buyers:
BL provides an invoice with VAT included and marked as paid to BL so that the
sellers can join it to the CN22.
(Invoice is sent by e-mail and is available for download with a link.)
 Author: misbi View Messages Posted By misbi
 Posted: Jun 24, 2021 07:31
 Subject: Re: BrickLink and the new EU VAT e-commerce rules
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misbi (8098)

Location:  United Kingdom, Scotland
Member Since Contact Type Status Collage
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In Administrative, SylvainLS writes:
  In Administrative, misbi writes:
  In order to ensure that buyers are not charged VAT for a second time when they
receive their orders, sellers will need to provide Bricklink's IOSS / VOEC
number etc on CN22 customs form.

Where and when will this information be provided to sellers? It would be helpful
to have this sooner rather than later, so that those of us who use APIs to generate
shipping label info, can complete the required coding in advance of July 1st.

I guess it’ll work as it works now for sales made by non-UK sellers to UK-buyers:
BL provides an invoice with VAT included and marked as paid to BL so that the
sellers can join it to the CN22.
(Invoice is sent by e-mail and is available for download with a link.)

No, that's not quite the case. From Royal Mail's website:
Electronic customs data is now mandatory when you send items/goods abroad
(excluding personal correspondence). You are required to provide customs data
to us electronically in addition to the physical customs declaration (CN22
or CN23). This has been effective since 1 January 2020. Failure to comply is
likely to result in delays, having items returned or even destroyed.
 Author: minithings4life View Messages Posted By minithings4life
 Posted: Jun 24, 2021 07:46
 Subject: Re: BrickLink and the new EU VAT e-commerce rules
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minithings4life (15803)

Location:  United Kingdom, England
Member Since Contact Type Status
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Store: Minithingsforlife
  No, that's not quite the case. From Royal Mail's website:
Electronic customs data is now mandatory when you send items/goods abroad
(excluding personal correspondence). You are required to provide customs data
to us electronically in addition to the physical customs declaration (CN22
or CN23). This has been effective since 1 January 2020. Failure to comply is
likely to result in delays, having items returned or even destroyed.


How are you meant to electronically send the details. If I take a parcel to the
post office and they attach a CN22 and fill it in for me, how is it electronically
sent? Do the Post Office do it?
 Author: misbi View Messages Posted By misbi
 Posted: Jun 24, 2021 08:29
 Subject: Re: BrickLink and the new EU VAT e-commerce rules
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misbi (8098)

Location:  United Kingdom, Scotland
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In Administrative, Minifigforlife writes:
  
  No, that's not quite the case. From Royal Mail's website:
Electronic customs data is now mandatory when you send items/goods abroad
(excluding personal correspondence). You are required to provide customs data
to us electronically in addition to the physical customs declaration (CN22
or CN23). This has been effective since 1 January 2020. Failure to comply is
likely to result in delays, having items returned or even destroyed.


How are you meant to electronically send the details. If I take a parcel to the
post office and they attach a CN22 and fill it in for me, how is it electronically
sent? Do the Post Office do it?

If you're handing over at the counter, the I believe the counter staff will
do it as long as you've completed and attached the CN22 yourself. We stopped
using the Post Office counter service a couple of years back, so I'm a bit
out of the loop now.
 Author: minithings4life View Messages Posted By minithings4life
 Posted: Jun 24, 2021 08:55
 Subject: Re: BrickLink and the new EU VAT e-commerce rules
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minithings4life (15803)

Location:  United Kingdom, England
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Store: Minithingsforlife
We have a more complex system.
We take our parcels to a Council run business centre who process them through
their franking machine and bill us monthly.
Our post is then collected daily from the business centre. We attach all the
CN22 where needed, b ut we do not have the CN22B. The Business centre says they
cannot be ordered from the Royal Mail website. They also asked the Local Post
Office and they could only give them the CN22 without the barcode.
So we have been seeing abroad without CN22B, and therefore without any electronic
reference and have not had any problems.

If the CN22B are available at Post Offices and it is just our local one that
doesn't have any, then why can't you order them online?
 Author: misbi View Messages Posted By misbi
 Posted: Jun 24, 2021 09:18
 Subject: Re: BrickLink and the new EU VAT e-commerce rules
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misbi (8098)

Location:  United Kingdom, Scotland
Member Since Contact Type Status Collage
Nov 25, 2001 Contact Member Seller
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Store: Brickshop UK
In Administrative, Minifigforlife writes:
  We have a more complex system.
We take our parcels to a Council run business centre who process them through
their franking machine and bill us monthly.
Our post is then collected daily from the business centre. We attach all the
CN22 where needed, b ut we do not have the CN22B. The Business centre says they
cannot be ordered from the Royal Mail website. They also asked the Local Post
Office and they could only give them the CN22 without the barcode.
So we have been seeing abroad without CN22B, and therefore without any electronic
reference and have not had any problems.

If the CN22B are available at Post Offices and it is just our local one that
doesn't have any, then why can't you order them online?

It's because the barcode is unique to each parcel and is generated at the
PO counter in real-time. Perhaps they'll just stick it over the top of your
CN22. Who knows?!
 Author: SimplyBricks View Messages Posted By SimplyBricks
 Posted: Jun 24, 2021 07:52
 Subject: Re: BrickLink and the new EU VAT e-commerce rules
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SimplyBricks (18449)

Location:  United Kingdom, England
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Store: Simply Bricks
In Administrative, misbi writes:
  In Administrative, SylvainLS writes:
  In Administrative, misbi writes:
  In order to ensure that buyers are not charged VAT for a second time when they
receive their orders, sellers will need to provide Bricklink's IOSS / VOEC
number etc on CN22 customs form.

Where and when will this information be provided to sellers? It would be helpful
to have this sooner rather than later, so that those of us who use APIs to generate
shipping label info, can complete the required coding in advance of July 1st.

I guess it’ll work as it works now for sales made by non-UK sellers to UK-buyers:
BL provides an invoice with VAT included and marked as paid to BL so that the
sellers can join it to the CN22.
(Invoice is sent by e-mail and is available for download with a link.)

No, that's not quite the case. From Royal Mail's website:
Electronic customs data is now mandatory when you send items/goods abroad
(excluding personal correspondence). You are required to provide customs data
to us electronically in addition to the physical customs declaration (CN22
or CN23). This has been effective since 1 January 2020. Failure to comply is
likely to result in delays, having items returned or even destroyed.


Where is this on RM site? I couldn't find it. all I found was this https://personal.help.royalmail.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/106/session/L3RpbWUvMTYyNDUzNTMyNi9nZW4vMTYyNDUzNTMyNi9zaWQvZlVJMFlweU5LQVE4ZTVmSVklN0VlaEtHZFR6bjMyTWdaVV9uJTdFWVZiNjY1bkVIMVVXdkVCNmswUkIyR2k5V3VlMnk5ZVNZbElsSmN5ZkVGcFRNQWc4Mm5WbTIzME94WkVCQUNRQkRFb0ZOblBzTGtEJTdFZjBDNW5kMzFBJTIxJTIx


Mike
 Author: misbi View Messages Posted By misbi
 Posted: Jun 24, 2021 08:31
 Subject: Re: BrickLink and the new EU VAT e-commerce rules
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misbi (8098)

Location:  United Kingdom, Scotland
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Store: Brickshop UK
In Administrative, SimplyBricks writes:

  Where is this on RM site? I couldn't find it. all I found was this https://personal.help.royalmail.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/106/session/L3RpbWUvMTYyNDUzNTMyNi9nZW4vMTYyNDUzNTMyNi9zaWQvZlVJMFlweU5LQVE4ZTVmSVklN0VlaEtHZFR6bjMyTWdaVV9uJTdFWVZiNjY1bkVIMVVXdkVCNmswUkIyR2k5V3VlMnk5ZVNZbElsSmN5ZkVGcFRNQWc4Mm5WbTIzME94WkVCQUNRQkRFb0ZOblBzTGtEJTdFZjBDNW5kMzFBJTIxJTIx


Mike

It's here Mike (RM business customers area):
https://www.royalmail.com/business/international/guide/electronic-customs-data?cid=RM0520_TAR_DM_01
 Author: SylvainLS View Messages Posted By SylvainLS
 Posted: Jun 24, 2021 09:22
 Subject: Re: BrickLink and the new EU VAT e-commerce rules
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 Topic: Administrative
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SylvainLS (38)

Location:  France, Nouvelle-Aquitaine
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In Administrative, misbi writes:
  […]
  I guess it’ll work as it works now for sales made by non-UK sellers to UK-buyers:
BL provides an invoice with VAT included and marked as paid to BL so that the
sellers can join it to the CN22.
(Invoice is sent by e-mail and is available for download with a link.)

No, that's not quite the case. From Royal Mail's website:
Electronic customs data is now mandatory when you send items/goods abroad
(excluding personal correspondence). You are required to provide customs data
to us electronically in addition to the physical customs declaration (CN22
or CN23). This has been effective since 1 January 2020. Failure to comply is
likely to result in delays, having items returned or even destroyed.


BL’s VAT ID will be on the invoice.
 Author: misbi View Messages Posted By misbi
 Posted: Jun 24, 2021 09:57
 Subject: Re: BrickLink and the new EU VAT e-commerce rules
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misbi (8098)

Location:  United Kingdom, Scotland
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Store: Brickshop UK
In Administrative, SylvainLS writes:
  In Administrative, misbi writes:
  […]
  I guess it’ll work as it works now for sales made by non-UK sellers to UK-buyers:
BL provides an invoice with VAT included and marked as paid to BL so that the
sellers can join it to the CN22.
(Invoice is sent by e-mail and is available for download with a link.)

No, that's not quite the case. From Royal Mail's website:
Electronic customs data is now mandatory when you send items/goods abroad
(excluding personal correspondence). You are required to provide customs data
to us electronically in addition to the physical customs declaration (CN22
or CN23). This has been effective since 1 January 2020. Failure to comply is
likely to result in delays, having items returned or even destroyed.


BL’s VAT ID will be on the invoice.

Can you define what you mean by 'VAT ID'?
Do you mean VAT registration number or IOSS number?
It's the IOSS number that's required for electronic customs info.
 Author: SylvainLS View Messages Posted By SylvainLS
 Posted: Jun 24, 2021 11:32
 Subject: Re: BrickLink and the new EU VAT e-commerce rules
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SylvainLS (38)

Location:  France, Nouvelle-Aquitaine
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In Administrative, misbi writes:
  […]
  BL’s VAT ID will be on the invoice.

Can you define what you mean by 'VAT ID'?
Do you mean VAT registration number or IOSS number?
It's the IOSS number that's required for electronic customs info.

The name is “IOSS VAT Identification number.”  So, as I understand it, there’s
no “or.”
 Author: Kuboteka View Messages Posted By Kuboteka
 Posted: Jun 24, 2021 08:34
 Subject: Re: BrickLink and the new EU VAT e-commerce rules
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Kuboteka (15569) 
(was J_Keter)

Location:  Lithuania, Vilnius
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In Administrative, Admin_Russell writes:
  5) EU sellers that sell more than €10,000 of goods within the EU (but excluding
domestic transactions) per year will be required to be VAT registered in each
EU Member State it sells to or will need to register for the One Stop Shop (OSS)
scheme.

Russel, thanks for your message! Need to understand more about it.
Will this VAT from EU Sellers will be collected by Bricklink, or Bricklink will
just required the OSS registration from sellers and will not allow to sell without
these documents? Or it is on a seller side to have these documents and pay to
goverment, without of bricklink participation?
 Author: SylvainLS View Messages Posted By SylvainLS
 Posted: Jun 24, 2021 09:29
 Subject: Re: BrickLink and the new EU VAT e-commerce rules
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SylvainLS (38)

Location:  France, Nouvelle-Aquitaine
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BrickLink Discussions Moderator (?)
In Administrative, J_Keter writes:
  […]

In Administrative, Admin_Russell writes:

  
  5) EU sellers that sell more than €10,000 of goods within the EU (but excluding
domestic transactions) per year will be required to be VAT registered in each
EU Member State it sells to or will need to register for the One Stop Shop (OSS)
scheme.

Russel, thanks for your message! Need to understand more about it.
Will this VAT from EU Sellers will be collected by Bricklink,

The law doesn’t make BL do that.  Or even allows BL to do that AFAIK.


   or Bricklink will
just required the OSS registration from sellers and will not allow to sell without
these documents? Or it is on a seller side to have these documents and pay to
goverment, without of bricklink participation?

BL doesn’t participate on the VAT collection and doesn’t need to check anything,
but BL needs to modify the VAT option so that the sellers can choose whether
they use their country’s rate or the buyer’s country’s rate.

And that’s not a small change because the current VAT option is very simple and
dumb.
 Author: Kuboteka View Messages Posted By Kuboteka
 Posted: Jun 24, 2021 10:26
 Subject: Re: BrickLink and the new EU VAT e-commerce rules
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Kuboteka (15569) 
(was J_Keter)

Location:  Lithuania, Vilnius
Member Since Contact Type Status
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Store: Kuboteka
In Administrative, SylvainLS writes:
  In Administrative, J_Keter writes:
  […]

In Administrative, Admin_Russell writes:

  
  5) EU sellers that sell more than €10,000 of goods within the EU (but excluding
domestic transactions) per year will be required to be VAT registered in each
EU Member State it sells to or will need to register for the One Stop Shop (OSS)
scheme.

Russel, thanks for your message! Need to understand more about it.
Will this VAT from EU Sellers will be collected by Bricklink,

The law doesn’t make BL do that.  Or even allows BL to do that AFAIK.


   or Bricklink will
just required the OSS registration from sellers and will not allow to sell without
these documents? Or it is on a seller side to have these documents and pay to
goverment, without of bricklink participation?

BL doesn’t participate on the VAT collection and doesn’t need to check anything,
but BL needs to modify the VAT option so that the sellers can choose whether
they use their country’s rate or the buyer’s country’s rate.

And that’s not a small change because the current VAT option is very simple and
dumb.

I understand, thanks!

So large stores who sell more than EUR 10.000 Yearly will need to chose one of
this option and there will be VAT in Bricklink Invoice.
Correct?
 Author: SylvainLS View Messages Posted By SylvainLS
 Posted: Jun 24, 2021 11:35
 Subject: Re: BrickLink and the new EU VAT e-commerce rules
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SylvainLS (38)

Location:  France, Nouvelle-Aquitaine
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In Administrative, J_Keter writes:
  […]
I understand, thanks!

So large stores who sell more than EUR 10.000 Yearly will need to chose one of
this option and there will be VAT in Bricklink Invoice.
Correct?

Yes, BL’s VAT mechanism is:
— you say you’re VAT registered,
— you give your VAT ID,
— you enter your prices without VAT (which is new),
— and BL shows your prices with or without VAT to your buyers, depending on where
they live,
— and VAT appears on the invoices to your EU buyers.

But YOU charge the VAT, the mechanism just automatize calculations.  YOU collect
VAT and YOU declare and remit it, to your gouvernment for domestic sales and
on the One Stop Shop (OSS) for EU sales.

For now, BL only uses the VAT rate of the seller’s country.  It needs to be changed
for those who need to use the buyer’s rate.
 Author: patpendlego View Messages Posted By patpendlego
 Posted: Jun 24, 2021 10:39
 Subject: Re: BrickLink and the new EU VAT e-commerce rules
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patpendlego (3794)

Location:  Netherlands, Overijssel
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In Administrative, Admin_Russell writes:
  BrickLink VAT Changes Due to new EU VAT e-commerce Rules

[snip]

I have a question.

Does BrickLink collect VAT on orders placed at sellers that have not registered
their VAT-id at BrickLink?

Because, if selling goods under the margin-regulation then there is no VAT to
be charged per order. VAT is then calculated on the total profit of all orders
per quarter of a year. BrickLink should not and cannot intervene in that. It
would make selling goods under the margin-regulation at BrickLink impossible.

Arnoud
 Author: SylvainLS View Messages Posted By SylvainLS
 Posted: Jun 24, 2021 11:36
 Subject: Re: BrickLink and the new EU VAT e-commerce rules
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SylvainLS (38)

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BrickLink Discussions Moderator (?)
In Administrative, patpendlego writes:
  In Administrative, Admin_Russell writes:
  BrickLink VAT Changes Due to new EU VAT e-commerce Rules

[snip]

I have a question.

Does BrickLink collect VAT on orders placed at sellers that have not registered
their VAT-id at BrickLink?

Because, if selling goods under the margin-regulation then there is no VAT to
be charged per order. VAT is then calculated on the total profit of all orders
per quarter of a year. BrickLink should not and cannot intervene in that. It
would make selling goods under the margin-regulation at BrickLink impossible.

BrickLink will collect VAT from the EU buyers who buy from non-EU sellers.

Non-EU sellers are generally not VAT-registered in EU and don’t use BL’s VAT
mechanism are they are not in EU.
 Author: patpendlego View Messages Posted By patpendlego
 Posted: Jun 24, 2021 12:58
 Subject: Re: BrickLink and the new EU VAT e-commerce rules
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patpendlego (3794)

Location:  Netherlands, Overijssel
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In Administrative, SylvainLS writes:
  In Administrative, patpendlego writes:
  In Administrative, Admin_Russell writes:
  BrickLink VAT Changes Due to new EU VAT e-commerce Rules

[snip]

I have a question.

Does BrickLink collect VAT on orders placed at sellers that have not registered
their VAT-id at BrickLink?

Because, if selling goods under the margin-regulation then there is no VAT to
be charged per order. VAT is then calculated on the total profit of all orders
per quarter of a year. BrickLink should not and cannot intervene in that. It
would make selling goods under the margin-regulation at BrickLink impossible.

BrickLink will collect VAT from the EU buyers who buy from non-EU sellers.

Non-EU sellers are generally not VAT-registered in EU and don’t use BL’s VAT
mechanism are they are not in EU.

Clear. Thx.
 Author: jbricks View Messages Posted By jbricks
 Posted: Jun 29, 2021 12:44
 Subject: Re: BrickLink and the new EU VAT e-commerce rules
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jbricks (15446)

Location:  Netherlands, Gelderland
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3) Sellers should list the items in their inventory exclusive of VAT and any
other taxes/fees to ensure price consistency in the Price Guide.




Does this mean for us as a VAT registred seller, that all our prices have to
be changed?

Or does bricklink do this in the night of july 1st?

And how in the world am i going to do that? those are thousands and thousands
of prices.
which all include 21% vat at the moment.
 Author: firestar246 View Messages Posted By firestar246
 Posted: Jun 29, 2021 12:51
 Subject: Re: BrickLink and the new EU VAT e-commerce rules
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firestar246 (9662)

Location:  USA, Missouri
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Store: Tons of Bricks (GDM)
In Administrative, jbricks writes:
  
  
3) Sellers should list the items in their inventory exclusive of VAT and any
other taxes/fees to ensure price consistency in the Price Guide.




Does this mean for us as a VAT registred seller, that all our prices have to
be changed?

Or does bricklink do this in the night of july 1st?

And how in the world am i going to do that? those are thousands and thousands
of prices.
which all include 21% vat at the moment.

Go to the inventory page, select everything, and at the bottom under "Update
my inventory", there is an increase/decrease value by x%.
 Author: jbricks View Messages Posted By jbricks
 Posted: Jun 29, 2021 12:53
 Subject: Re: BrickLink and the new EU VAT e-commerce rules
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jbricks (15446)

Location:  Netherlands, Gelderland
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Go to the inventory page, select everything, and at the bottom under "Update
my inventory", there is an increase/decrease value by x%.


Wouldn't the website time out?
Since adding big sets also makes it do that,
And that is with under 1000 lots.
 Author: jbricks View Messages Posted By jbricks
 Posted: Jun 29, 2021 13:00
 Subject: Re: BrickLink and the new EU VAT e-commerce rules
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jbricks (15446)

Location:  Netherlands, Gelderland
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thank you for your answer,

But all is see is an option to adjust the MY COST, which ofcourse isn't the
price,

Or am i looking at the wrong boxes?
 Author: peregrinator View Messages Posted By peregrinator
 Posted: Jun 29, 2021 13:21
 Subject: Re: BrickLink and the new EU VAT e-commerce rules
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peregrinator (456)

Location:  USA, New Jersey
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In Administrative, jbricks writes:
  thank you for your answer,

But all is see is an option to adjust the MY COST, which ofcourse isn't the
price,

Or am i looking at the wrong boxes?

If it's the setting I think it is, it says "cost" but actually refers to
price
 Author: SylvainLS View Messages Posted By SylvainLS
 Posted: Jun 29, 2021 13:25
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SylvainLS (38)

Location:  France, Nouvelle-Aquitaine
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In Administrative, peregrinator writes:
  In Administrative, jbricks writes:
  thank you for your answer,

But all is see is an option to adjust the MY COST, which ofcourse isn't the
price,

Or am i looking at the wrong boxes?

If it's the setting I think it is, it says "cost" but actually refers to
price

What about the often mentionned negative sale?
Set all your shop on a negative sale, then, IIRC, there’s a set prices as permanent
or something to that effect.
 Author: jbricks View Messages Posted By jbricks
 Posted: Jun 29, 2021 13:27
 Subject: Re: BrickLink and the new EU VAT e-commerce rules
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jbricks (15446)

Location:  Netherlands, Gelderland
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In Administrative, SylvainLS writes:
  In Administrative, peregrinator writes:
  In Administrative, jbricks writes:
  thank you for your answer,

But all is see is an option to adjust the MY COST, which ofcourse isn't the
price,

Or am i looking at the wrong boxes?

If it's the setting I think it is, it says "cost" but actually refers to
price

What about the often mentionned negative sale?
Set all your shop on a negative sale, then, IIRC, there’s a set prices as permanent
or something to that effect.


But then the question remains,

Do i need to do that?
And if so, can a sale have decimal?

Since the baseprice would be the saleprice divided with 17.5%
 Author: SylvainLS View Messages Posted By SylvainLS
 Posted: Jun 29, 2021 13:36
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SylvainLS (38)

Location:  France, Nouvelle-Aquitaine
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In Administrative, jbricks writes:
  […]
But then the question remains,

Do i need to do that?

Indeed, BL has been silent on the subject… and on the need for some sellers to
use the buyer’s country’s VAT rate.


  And if so, can a sale have decimal?

  Since the baseprice would be the saleprice divided with 17.5%

I’d hope so.
But if not, you can do -19% then +2% (0.81 x 1.02 = 0.8262 which is near the
0.8264462… you need; nearer than 17.5% is to 17.355%)
 Author: jbricks View Messages Posted By jbricks
 Posted: Jun 29, 2021 13:47
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jbricks (15446)

Location:  Netherlands, Gelderland
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In Administrative, SylvainLS writes:
  In Administrative, jbricks writes:
  […]
But then the question remains,

Do i need to do that?

Indeed, BL has been silent on the subject… and on the need for some sellers to
use the buyer’s country’s VAT rate.

Probably all vat registred sellers, since the €10000 for all countries in the
eu, is really low.

But it might even be so, that every VATseller has to change their prices to baseprice
instead of the final price including tax.


  

  And if so, can a sale have decimal?

  Since the baseprice would be the saleprice divided with 17.5%

I’d hope so.
But if not, you can do -19% then +2% (0.81 x 1.02 = 0.8262 which is near the
0.8264462… you need; nearer than 17.5% is to 17.355%)

just checked it with 1 category, sadly it does not take decimals
 Author: SylvainLS View Messages Posted By SylvainLS
 Posted: Jun 29, 2021 14:13
 Subject: Re: BrickLink and the new EU VAT e-commerce rules
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SylvainLS (38)

Location:  France, Nouvelle-Aquitaine
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In Administrative, jbricks writes:
  […]
  Indeed, BL has been silent on the subject… and on the need for some sellers to
use the buyer’s country’s VAT rate.

Probably all vat registred sellers, since the €10000 for all countries in the
eu, is really low.

I’m about sure it is for French VAT-registered sellers as the threshold for mandatory
registration is €82,800 here.  So if they are above that gross, there’s a big
chance they are over €10,000 for the rest of EU: only 13% of their sales.
Not so sure in countries where the VAT threshold is lower: bigger percentage.

The other way around, making more than €10,000 in EU but less than the VAT-threshold
domestically can also happen.  And, in France, as it seems you need a VAT ID
to register to the OSS website, that means you’d need to register even if you’re
below the €82,800 threshold.
And you need to be registered _before_ you sell (not “oops, I just got an order
from a EU buyer, I’m now above €10,000, I need to register”).
Lots of people will get nasty surprises in 3… 2… 1…

(Not BL’s fault here… but they could lend their VAT experts to their sellers/members.)


  But it might even be so, that every VATseller has to change their prices to baseprice
instead of the final price including tax.

Now, silver lining: I don’t think BL will unilateraly change the prices for the
sellers.  Well, I hope they won’t
 Author: jbricks View Messages Posted By jbricks
 Posted: Jun 29, 2021 13:25
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jbricks (15446)

Location:  Netherlands, Gelderland
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In Administrative, peregrinator writes:
  In Administrative, jbricks writes:
  thank you for your answer,

But all is see is an option to adjust the MY COST, which ofcourse isn't the
price,

Or am i looking at the wrong boxes?

If it's the setting I think it is, it says "cost" but actually refers to
price

Well no,

the my cost, refers to my cost. which is and extra box, where you can put the
prices you paid for the items, not the saleprice.
 Author: peregrinator View Messages Posted By peregrinator
 Posted: Jun 29, 2021 13:28
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peregrinator (456)

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In Administrative, jbricks writes:
  In Administrative, peregrinator writes:
  If it's the setting I think it is, it says "cost" but actually refers to
price

Well no,

the my cost, refers to my cost. which is and extra box, where you can put the
prices you paid for the items, not the saleprice.

Yes, I know what it says, but try it on a single item and you'll see that
it actually adjusts the *price* and not the *cost* you paid.
 Author: jbricks View Messages Posted By jbricks
 Posted: Jun 29, 2021 13:33
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jbricks (15446)

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In Administrative, peregrinator writes:
  In Administrative, jbricks writes:
  In Administrative, peregrinator writes:
  If it's the setting I think it is, it says "cost" but actually refers to
price

Well no,

the my cost, refers to my cost. which is and extra box, where you can put the
prices you paid for the items, not the saleprice.

Yes, I know what it says, but try it on a single item and you'll see that
it actually adjusts the *price* and not the *cost* you paid.


Thank you,

That would help if its necessary,

You are absolutely correct, bit strange that is says my cost, it really does
update the price.
 Author: firestar246 View Messages Posted By firestar246
 Posted: Jun 29, 2021 13:43
 Subject: Re: BrickLink and the new EU VAT e-commerce rules
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 Topic: Administrative
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firestar246 (9662)

Location:  USA, Missouri
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Store: Tons of Bricks (GDM)
In Administrative, jbricks writes:

  
You are absolutely correct, bit strange that is says my cost, it really does
update the price.

That's good to know. I had originally misread that.

And to your other question: no, it shouldn't time out. I've put sales
on everything at once with no problem.
 Author: jbricks View Messages Posted By jbricks
 Posted: Jun 29, 2021 13:45
 Subject: Re: BrickLink and the new EU VAT e-commerce rules
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jbricks (15446)

Location:  Netherlands, Gelderland
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In Administrative, firestar246 writes:
  In Administrative, jbricks writes:

  
You are absolutely correct, bit strange that is says my cost, it really does
update the price.

That's good to know. I had originally misread that.

And to your other question: no, it shouldn't time out. I've put sales
on everything at once with no problem.


Good to know, since your 20 thousand lots are way more then our 35hundred.
So that would not be a problem,
 Author: jbricks View Messages Posted By jbricks
 Posted: Jun 29, 2021 12:52
 Subject: Re: BrickLink and the new EU VAT e-commerce rules
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jbricks (15446)

Location:  Netherlands, Gelderland
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Store: jbricks
On the order received page, there is already a button to deduct vat out of EU
orders,

And all orders from outside the eu are sold without vat, (so bricklink knows
the excl.vat price)

please explain, this scares us.

Thank you,

In Administrative, jbricks writes:
  
  
3) Sellers should list the items in their inventory exclusive of VAT and any
other taxes/fees to ensure price consistency in the Price Guide.




Does this mean for us as a VAT registred seller, that all our prices have to
be changed?

Or does bricklink do this in the night of july 1st?

And how in the world am i going to do that? those are thousands and thousands
of prices.
which all include 21% vat at the moment.
 Author: helge View Messages Posted By helge
 Posted: Jul 7, 2021 05:31
 Subject: Re: BrickLink and the new EU VAT e-commerce rules
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helge (20924)

Location:  Norway
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Store: HELGE's sets & bricks
In Administrative, Admin_Russell writes:
  BrickLink VAT Changes Due to new EU VAT e-commerce Rules

Dear BrickLink members,

Following the introduction of the new rules for online marketplaces, BrickLink
will enable its VAT collection for goods imported into the European Union (EU)
on July 1, 2021 to comply with the new EU VAT Marketplace rules. Below is an
overview of these changes:

Changes at a glance:

1) EU buyers will see VAT exclusive prices from non-EU sellers and EU buyers
will see VAT inclusive prices from VAT-registered EU sellers.

2) BrickLink will collect and remit VAT on orders delivered to EU addresses imported
into their EU Member State from a non-EU country up to a value of €150 (not including
additional costs i.e. shipping insurance, etc.). For orders over €150 imported
to their EU Member State, the seller/buyer may need to pay VAT consistent with
the import country’s standard VAT rate as part of clearing the goods through
customs.

3) EU VAT will be added during the checkout process (where applicable) and at
the receipt of the final invoice and will not be included in the item price.

4) Where BrickLink is responsible for collecting VAT on orders sent to an EU
delivery address, this amount will be shown separately at checkout.

5) EU sellers that sell more than €10,000 of goods within the EU (but excluding
domestic transactions) per year will be required to be VAT registered in each
EU Member State it sells to or will need to register for the One Stop Shop (OSS)
scheme.


What this means for sellers:

1) If you are a non-EU seller and you want to sell goods to EU buyers, you will
need to opt-in to BrickLink’s on-site payment method.

2) In case of refunds, we encourage sellers to use the BrickLink refund feature
to ensure the correct amount of VAT gets refunded. The refund page can be accessed
from the Issue Refund link on the order detail page.

3) Sellers should list the items in their inventory exclusive of VAT and any
other taxes/fees to ensure price consistency in the Price Guide.

More information will be posted on dedicated Help and FAQ pages closer to the
release date.

Thank you,

The BrickLink Team


Sorry of this has been covered before, but I have not seen it.

For selling to EU how can we document that VAT has been paid? The document that
Bricklink provides does not (unlike the similar document for UK) contain any
invoice number, VAT ID, or description of goods. And it specifically says that
"This is NOT an invoice for VAT purposes" So what is the point of that document?

Regards,
Helge
 Author: SylvainLS View Messages Posted By SylvainLS
 Posted: Jul 7, 2021 06:46
 Subject: Re: BrickLink and the new EU VAT e-commerce rules
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SylvainLS (38)

Location:  France, Nouvelle-Aquitaine
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BrickLink Discussions Moderator (?)
In Administrative, helge writes:
  […]
Sorry of this has been covered before, but I have not seen it.

For selling to EU how can we document that VAT has been paid? The document that
Bricklink provides does not (unlike the similar document for UK) contain any
invoice number, VAT ID, or description of goods.

https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=2517#ioss

You need to join the receipt to the CN22/23.
You need BL’s IOSS-VAT-ID, and you need to give it electronically to your shipping
carrier.

Thou Shall Not write the IOSS on the package… but you can write it on the CN22
that you’ll stick to the package….


   And it specifically says that
"This is NOT an invoice for VAT purposes" So what is the point of that document?

This part means you can’t use it to reclaim VAT.  It’s a receipt, not an invoice.
 Author: helge View Messages Posted By helge
 Posted: Jul 7, 2021 07:10
 Subject: Re: BrickLink and the new EU VAT e-commerce rules
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helge (20924)

Location:  Norway
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Store: HELGE's sets & bricks
In Administrative, SylvainLS writes:
  In Administrative, helge writes:
  […]
Sorry of this has been covered before, but I have not seen it.

For selling to EU how can we document that VAT has been paid? The document that
Bricklink provides does not (unlike the similar document for UK) contain any
invoice number, VAT ID, or description of goods.

https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=2517#ioss

You need to join the receipt to the CN22/23.
You need BL’s IOSS-VAT-ID, and you need to give it electronically to your shipping
carrier.

Thou Shall Not write the IOSS on the package… but you can write it on the CN22
that you’ll stick to the package….


   And it specifically says that
"This is NOT an invoice for VAT purposes" So what is the point of that document?

This part means you can’t use it to reclaim VAT.  It’s a receipt, not an invoice.


Thanks. I assumed that it would be the same as sending to UK. Luckily I have
not had many orders from EU since July 1.

Regards,
Helge
 Author: SylvainLS View Messages Posted By SylvainLS
 Posted: Jul 7, 2021 08:17
 Subject: Re: BrickLink and the new EU VAT e-commerce rules
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SylvainLS (38)

Location:  France, Nouvelle-Aquitaine
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BrickLink Discussions Moderator (?)
In Administrative, helge writes:
  […]
Thanks. I assumed that it would be the same as sending to UK. Luckily I have
not had many orders from EU since July 1.

Well, I guess it was supposed to be the same but Brexit came in just before the
first vote (2017 for EU), so it ended a bit different.
Norway’s requirements should be similar (voted earlier, and implemented in April
2020 I think) but BL hasn’t done anything yet, maybe not enough sales there or
deemed less risky to take their time?
 Author: Stellar View Messages Posted By Stellar
 Posted: Jul 7, 2021 11:28
 Subject: Re: BrickLink and the new EU VAT e-commerce rules
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Stellar (2572)

Location:  Spain, Comunidad Valenciana
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Store: Stellar Bricks
BrickLink Discussions Moderator (?)
In Administrative, SylvainLS writes:
  In Administrative, helge writes:
  […]
Sorry of this has been covered before, but I have not seen it.

For selling to EU how can we document that VAT has been paid? The document that
Bricklink provides does not (unlike the similar document for UK) contain any
invoice number, VAT ID, or description of goods.

https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=2517#ioss

You need to join the receipt to the CN22/23.
You need BL’s IOSS-VAT-ID, and you need to give it electronically to your shipping
carrier.

Thou Shall Not write the IOSS on the package… but you can write it on the CN22
that you’ll stick to the package….


   And it specifically says that
"This is NOT an invoice for VAT purposes" So what is the point of that document?

This part means you can’t use it to reclaim VAT.  It’s a receipt, not an invoice.

So... as a Business I can't buy anything for less than 150€ and reclaim that
VAT...?
 Author: SylvainLS View Messages Posted By SylvainLS
 Posted: Jul 7, 2021 12:04
 Subject: Re: BrickLink and the new EU VAT e-commerce rules
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SylvainLS (38)

Location:  France, Nouvelle-Aquitaine
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BrickLink Discussions Moderator (?)
In Administrative, Stellar writes:
  […]
So... as a Business I can't buy anything for less than 150€ and reclaim that
VAT...?

As I understand it, as a business, you give BL your VAT-ID and you don’t pay
that VAT: read “en creux” (indirectly) the questions 10 and 11 on https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=2518
“private buyers”
“non-VAT registered sellers in EU”
 Author: Stellar View Messages Posted By Stellar
 Posted: Jul 7, 2021 12:13
 Subject: Re: BrickLink and the new EU VAT e-commerce rules
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Stellar (2572)

Location:  Spain, Comunidad Valenciana
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Store: Stellar Bricks
BrickLink Discussions Moderator (?)
In Administrative, SylvainLS writes:
  In Administrative, Stellar writes:
  […]
So... as a Business I can't buy anything for less than 150€ and reclaim that
VAT...?

As I understand it, as a business, you give BL your VAT-ID and you don’t pay
that VAT: read “en creux” (indirectly) the questions 10 and 11 on https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=2518
“private buyers”
“non-VAT registered sellers in EU”

"BrickLink will not collect VAT if the buyer is VAT registered and provides their
valid VAT number (in these cases, the VAT registered buyer will be responsible
to account for VAT)."

Well... I'm VAT registered and verified in the management tab in my Bricklink
store settings...

So this is also something not implemented...?

PD: Or if I place the order the VAT amount will disappear?
 
 Author: SylvainLS View Messages Posted By SylvainLS
 Posted: Jul 7, 2021 12:26
 Subject: Re: BrickLink and the new EU VAT e-commerce rules
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SylvainLS (38)

Location:  France, Nouvelle-Aquitaine
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Store Closed Store: BuyerOnly
BrickLink Discussions Moderator (?)
In Administrative, Stellar writes:
  […]
"BrickLink will not collect VAT if the buyer is VAT registered and provides their
valid VAT number (in these cases, the VAT registered buyer will be responsible
to account for VAT)."

Ah, I knew I read the direct sentence somewhere but couldn’t find it again.


  Well... I'm VAT registered and verified in the management tab in my Bricklink
store settings...

So this is also something not implemented...?

Implemented the BrickLink way


  PD: Or if I place the order the VAT amount will disappear?

Ooh, a derring-do
 Author: kaat View Messages Posted By kaat
 Posted: Jul 7, 2021 12:14
 Subject: Re: BrickLink and the new EU VAT e-commerce rules
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kaat (6234)

Location:  Netherlands, Zuid-Holland
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Store: ilovebricks.nl
In Administrative, SylvainLS writes:
  In Administrative, Stellar writes:
  […]
So... as a Business I can't buy anything for less than 150€ and reclaim that
VAT...?

As I understand it, as a business, you give BL your VAT-ID and you don’t pay
that VAT: read “en creux” (indirectly) the questions 10 and 11 on https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=2518
“private buyers”
“non-VAT registered sellers in EU”

That's what I thought too. However, when I fill a cart at a shop from US,
still VAT is being added even though I have a VAT id in my account. So now indeed
I need to go over 150 euro, or buy within the EU. Not sure if this is a bug or
a feature