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| | | Author: | S_H_M  | | Posted: | Jun 23, 2021 06:54 | | Subject: | Seller not responsible ? | | Viewed: | 303 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| Hi All,
I ordered parts from a well known seller in the US and paid by paypal. It was
shipped by USPS with tracking. Package hasn't been scanned since 18 may,
so that's not good.
When I contacted the seller, he referred to his TOS where he stated that he
is not responsible for lost packages.
Well I think (read know) he is because he's an official seller so (at least
in Europe not sure how it is in the US) a seller is responsible for the delivery
of the goods. And secondly he accepted a payment by paypal so he is bound to
paypal terms.
What are you're thoughts about this ? Can a seller put in terms which are
against the law ? Should BL make an general TOS where all sellers are bound
too ? should I read his terms and not place the order ?
|
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| | | | | Author: | alexwilcox | | Posted: | Jun 23, 2021 07:07 | | Subject: | Re: Seller not responsible ? | | Viewed: | 92 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, S_H_M writes:
| | Hi All,
I ordered parts from a well known seller in the US and paid by paypal. It was
shipped by USPS with tracking. Package hasn't been scanned since 18 may,
so that's not good.
When I contacted the seller, he referred to his TOS where he stated that he
is not responsible for lost packages.
Well I think (read know) he is because he's an official seller so (at least
in Europe not sure how it is in the US) a seller is responsible for the delivery
of the goods. And secondly he accepted a payment by paypal so he is bound to
paypal terms.
What are you're thoughts about this ? Can a seller put in terms which are
against the law ? Should BL make an general TOS where all sellers are bound
too ? should I read his terms and not place the order ?
|
If he's not going to help then it sounds like you need to start a paypal
claim,
People can write whatever they want in their terms - if they go against bricklink/paypal/local
laws then it's just a waste of their time!
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| | | | | Author: | tons_of_bricks | | Posted: | Jun 23, 2021 07:14 | | Subject: | Re: Seller not responsible ? | | Viewed: | 81 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| They can't do that; they are responsible for the package until it arrives
to the customer. Like alex said, someone can write whatever they want to in their
store terms, but if those terms don't follow the laws, then they're null
and void.
Paypal will most likely side with you if the seller won't cooperate.
|
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| | | | | Author: | Brickwilbo | | Posted: | Jun 23, 2021 07:22 | | Subject: | Re: Seller not responsible ? | | Viewed: | 76 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, S_H_M writes:
| | Hi All,
I ordered parts from a well known seller in the US and paid by paypal. It was
shipped by USPS with tracking. Package hasn't been scanned since 18 may,
so that's not good.
|
18 may isn't that very long.
| |
When I contacted the seller, he referred to his TOS where he stated that he
is not responsible for lost packages.
Well I think (read know) he is because he's an official seller so (at least
in Europe not sure how it is in the US) a seller is responsible for the delivery
of the goods. And secondly he accepted a payment by paypal so he is bound to
paypal terms.
|
You've 180 days to start a dispute on the PayPal website.
| |
What are you're thoughts about this ? Can a seller put in terms which are
against the law ? Should BL make an general TOS where all sellers are bound
too ? should I read his terms and not place the order ?
|
It's already in the TOS.
|
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| | | | | Author: | Elkenwood | | Posted: | Jun 23, 2021 07:25 | | Subject: | Re: Seller not responsible ? | | Viewed: | 82 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, S_H_M writes:
| | Hi All,
I ordered parts from a well known seller in the US and paid by paypal. It was
shipped by USPS with tracking. Package hasn't been scanned since 18 may,
so that's not good.
When I contacted the seller, he referred to his TOS where he stated that he
is not responsible for lost packages.
Well I think (read know) he is because he's an official seller so (at least
in Europe not sure how it is in the US) a seller is responsible for the delivery
of the goods. And secondly he accepted a payment by paypal so he is bound to
paypal terms.
What are you're thoughts about this ? Can a seller put in terms which are
against the law ? Should BL make an general TOS where all sellers are bound
too ? should I read his terms and not place the order ?
|
Is it stuck at USPS Chicago? I've had to wait over a month for any package
to leave that facility.
Irregardless, you can contact the courier and have them open up a missing item
inquiry with the tracking number. That way you still know whether or not it's
on it's way before deciding anything further.
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| | | | | Author: | cosmicray | | Posted: | Jun 23, 2021 07:58 | | Subject: | Re: Seller not responsible ? | | Viewed: | 71 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, S_H_M writes:
| | I ordered parts from a well known seller in the US and paid by paypal. It was
shipped by USPS with tracking. Package hasn't been scanned since 18 may,
so that's not good.
|
You are impatient, I understand that. What class of service was the package ?
If it was sent Registered, it will take a very long time to reach you. Tell us
more about the tracking number.
Nita Rae
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| | | | | Author: | pitz8008 | | Posted: | Jun 23, 2021 08:25 | | Subject: | Re: Seller not responsible ? | | Viewed: | 73 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, S_H_M writes:
| | Hi All,
I ordered parts from a well known seller in the US and paid by paypal. It was
shipped by USPS with tracking. Package hasn't been scanned since 18 may,
so that's not good.
When I contacted the seller, he referred to his TOS where he stated that he
is not responsible for lost packages.
Well I think (read know) he is because he's an official seller so (at least
in Europe not sure how it is in the US) a seller is responsible for the delivery
of the goods. And secondly he accepted a payment by paypal so he is bound to
paypal terms.
What are you're thoughts about this ? Can a seller put in terms which are
against the law ? Should BL make an general TOS where all sellers are bound
too ? should I read his terms and not place the order ?
|
The 18th of May isn't very long for an international order from America.
And the scanning doesn't get updated very often for international orders.
|
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| | | | | Author: | peregrinator | | Posted: | Jun 23, 2021 08:36 | | Subject: | Re: Seller not responsible ? | | Viewed: | 61 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| Five weeks since the last scan sounds long, but given that it's an international
order it might still be OK. I would wait a bit longer before starting a PayPal
dispute - and yes, you're correct that the seller is responsible for the
delivery. That's not necessarily true in the US, but it's certainly true
for PayPal.
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| | | | | Author: | superchicken77 | | Posted: | Jun 23, 2021 09:26 | | Subject: | Re: Seller not responsible ? | | Viewed: | 79 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| Somebody posted a video within the last week about some ebay or amazon sellers
complaining about USPS being slow lately. I would just wait another 3-4 weeks
before starting a paypal claim. Your package is probably on its way, just delayed.
In Help, S_H_M writes:
| | Hi All,
I ordered parts from a well known seller in the US and paid by paypal. It was
shipped by USPS with tracking. Package hasn't been scanned since 18 may,
so that's not good.
When I contacted the seller, he referred to his TOS where he stated that he
is not responsible for lost packages.
Well I think (read know) he is because he's an official seller so (at least
in Europe not sure how it is in the US) a seller is responsible for the delivery
of the goods. And secondly he accepted a payment by paypal so he is bound to
paypal terms.
What are you're thoughts about this ? Can a seller put in terms which are
against the law ? Should BL make an general TOS where all sellers are bound
too ? should I read his terms and not place the order ?
|
|
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| | | | | | | Author: | StonesHeart | | Posted: | Jun 24, 2021 10:04 | | Subject: | Re: Seller not responsible ? | | Viewed: | 59 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| So bizarre, 3 to 4 weeks, and you all accept this?
I shipped a parcel to a US customer on june 21st, already today it is in the
US. Expected delivery between jun 26th - jul 1st.
Why would there be such a difference between domestic and international?
In Help, superchicken77 writes:
| | Somebody posted a video within the last week about some ebay or amazon sellers
complaining about USPS being slow lately. I would just wait another 3-4 weeks
before starting a paypal claim. Your package is probably on its way, just delayed.
In Help, S_H_M writes:
| | Hi All,
I ordered parts from a well known seller in the US and paid by paypal. It was
shipped by USPS with tracking. Package hasn't been scanned since 18 may,
so that's not good.
When I contacted the seller, he referred to his TOS where he stated that he
is not responsible for lost packages.
Well I think (read know) he is because he's an official seller so (at least
in Europe not sure how it is in the US) a seller is responsible for the delivery
of the goods. And secondly he accepted a payment by paypal so he is bound to
paypal terms.
What are you're thoughts about this ? Can a seller put in terms which are
against the law ? Should BL make an general TOS where all sellers are bound
too ? should I read his terms and not place the order ?
|
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | jennnifer | | Posted: | Jun 24, 2021 10:43 | | Subject: | Re: Seller not responsible ? | | Viewed: | 72 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, StonesHeart writes:
| | So bizarre, 3 to 4 weeks, and you all accept this?
|
Yes.
| |
I shipped a parcel to a US customer on june 21st, already today it is in the
US. Expected delivery between jun 26th - jul 1st.
|
Not all mail is affected evenly. I have international orders from last month
that have not been processed and an order sent last week that is already in it's
country.
| |
Why would there be such a difference between domestic and international?
he order ?
|
The difference is that, when customs or a sorting facility falls behind, they
leave the packages not finished that day in a container on the side. The next
day, they process the new mail and if they finish in time, go back and start
working on the older packages.
We have Mr. DeJoy to thank for this brilliant and ridiculous process.
Jen
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | peregrinator | | Posted: | Jun 24, 2021 10:49 | | Subject: | Re: Seller not responsible ? | | Viewed: | 55 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, StonesHeart writes:
| | So bizarre, 3 to 4 weeks, and you all accept this?
I shipped a parcel to a US customer on june 21st, already today it is in the
US. Expected delivery between jun 26th - jul 1st.
Why would there be such a difference between domestic and international?
|
You really can't project a single order onto every shipment - especially
given that the order hasn't gotten to the customer yet
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | tons_of_bricks | | Posted: | Jun 24, 2021 11:53 | | Subject: | Re: Seller not responsible ? | | Viewed: | 67 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, StonesHeart writes:
| | So bizarre, 3 to 4 weeks, and you all accept this?
I shipped a parcel to a US customer on june 21st, already today it is in the
US. Expected delivery between jun 26th - jul 1st.
|
Is it in Chicago? If so, see how long it takes to get out of there. I got two
international packages stuck there currently.
Packages seem to be moving fine for the most part. The only problem area I'm
seeing is Chicago, and whenever something reaches there, it just sits for who
knows how long.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | PurpleOverdose | | Posted: | Jun 24, 2021 12:32 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 27 times | | Topic: | Help | |
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| | (Cancelled) |
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | PurpleOverdose | | Posted: | Jun 24, 2021 12:35 | | Subject: | Re: Seller not responsible ? | | Viewed: | 49 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| Almost 3 months in Chicago!!!!
Tracking History
June 23, 2021, 12:03 am
Arrived at USPS Regional Facility
CHICAGO IL NETWORK DISTRIBUTION CENTER
Your item arrived at our USPS facility in CHICAGO IL NETWORK DISTRIBUTION CENTER
on June 23, 2021 at 12:03 am. The item is currently in transit to the destination.
March 30, 2021, 2:07 am
Processed Through Facility
ISC CHICAGO IL (USPS)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | peregrinator | | Posted: | Jun 24, 2021 12:37 | | Subject: | Re: Seller not responsible ? | | Viewed: | 52 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| YIKES
In Help, PurpleOverdose writes:
| | Almost 3 months in Chicago!!!!
Tracking History
June 23, 2021, 12:03 am
Arrived at USPS Regional Facility
CHICAGO IL NETWORK DISTRIBUTION CENTER
Your item arrived at our USPS facility in CHICAGO IL NETWORK DISTRIBUTION CENTER
on June 23, 2021 at 12:03 am. The item is currently in transit to the destination.
March 30, 2021, 2:07 am
Processed Through Facility
ISC CHICAGO IL (USPS)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | StonesHeart | | Posted: | Jun 24, 2021 16:07 | | Subject: | Re: Seller not responsible ? | | Viewed: | 45 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| That is just terrible. I feel your pain.
In Help, peregrinator writes:
| | YIKES
In Help, PurpleOverdose writes:
| | Almost 3 months in Chicago!!!!
Tracking History
June 23, 2021, 12:03 am
Arrived at USPS Regional Facility
CHICAGO IL NETWORK DISTRIBUTION CENTER
Your item arrived at our USPS facility in CHICAGO IL NETWORK DISTRIBUTION CENTER
on June 23, 2021 at 12:03 am. The item is currently in transit to the destination.
March 30, 2021, 2:07 am
Processed Through Facility
ISC CHICAGO IL (USPS)
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| | | | | Author: | crazylegoman | | Posted: | Jun 23, 2021 10:08 | | Subject: | Re: Seller not responsible | | Viewed: | 101 times | | Topic: | Buying | |
|
| In Help, S_H_M writes:
| | Can a seller put in terms which are
against the law?
|
Those terms are not against the law.
| | Should BL make an general TOS where all sellers are bound
too?
|
No they should not. It's different in every country, and Bricklink has sellers
and buyers from all over the world.
| | should I read his terms and not place the order?
|
YES! That's what you should've done in the first place! Blaming
the seller for a mistake made by the postal service is just nonsense.
David
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| | | | | | | Author: | tons_of_bricks | | Posted: | Jun 23, 2021 10:19 | | Subject: | Re: Seller not responsible | | Viewed: | 90 times | | Topic: | Buying | |
|
| In Buying, crazylegoman writes:
| | In Help, S_H_M writes:
| | Can a seller put in terms which are
against the law?
|
Those terms are not against the law.
|
If the seller is using paypal, then it is against paypal's terms. And its
against BL terms I'm pretty sure.
| |
YES! That's what you should've done in the first place! Blaming
the seller for a mistake made by the postal service is just nonsense.
|
No its not. That's what insurance is for; to protect the seller, not the
buyer. If you buy from any major company and the package never arrives; what
are they going to do? Either send you another item or reimburse you. What makes
you think yourself or any other BL sellers shouldn't be held to those same
standards?
|
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | crazylegoman | | Posted: | Jun 23, 2021 11:20 | | Subject: | Re: Seller not responsible | | Viewed: | 91 times | | Topic: | Buying | |
|
| In Buying, firestar246 writes:
| | In Buying, crazylegoman writes:
| | In Help, S_H_M writes:
| | Can a seller put in terms which are
against the law?
|
Those terms are not against the law.
|
If the seller is using paypal, then it is against paypal's terms. And its
against BL terms I'm pretty sure.
|
I searched PayPal's terms and found nothing saying that. Do you have a reference/link
for your claim? I also searched BL's terms for such a rule and found none.
Do you have any reference for this?
| | | | YES! That's what you should've done in the first place! Blaming
the seller for a mistake made by the postal service is just nonsense.
|
No its not. That's what insurance is for; to protect the seller, not the
buyer. If you buy from any major company and the package never arrives; what
are they going to do? Either send you another item or reimburse you. What makes
you think yourself or any other BL sellers shouldn't be held to those same
standards?
|
The original message from the buyer did not mention insurance. I can say from
personal experience that NOT every major company is going to send you new merchandise
or reimburse you if the postal service loses your package.
Your claims are based on nothing solid, so I remain thoroughly unconvinced.
David
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | zorbanj | | Posted: | Jun 23, 2021 11:36 | | Subject: | Re: Seller not responsible | | Viewed: | 85 times | | Topic: | Buying | |
|
| In Buying, crazylegoman writes:
| |
I searched PayPal's terms and found nothing saying that. Do you have a reference/link
for your claim?
|
There isn't one because PayPal deliberately obfuscates their policies. Here
is a recent thread on this topic:
https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1276560
Here is a message from the above thread I wrote that i think is on point:
https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1276617
Bottom line, firestar246 is correct, and this knowledge comes from bad experiences
with PayPal.
| | I also searched BL's terms for such a rule and found none.
|
Doesn't matter what BL says. PayPal's policies govern here.
| | The original message from the buyer did not mention insurance. I can say from
personal experience that NOT every major company is going to send you new merchandise
or reimburse you if the postal service loses your package.
|
Depends on who the payment processor is and/or how much leeway they get with
credit card company chargebacks. There is a huge gulf between what major companies
can do vs us pipsqueaks.
| | Your claims are based on nothing solid, so I remain thoroughly unconvinced.
|
You have a perfect record here with almost 900 orders and whatever you are doing
regarding lost orders works. However, PayPal always holds the seller responsible
until the order is delivered.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yensid | | Posted: | Jun 23, 2021 13:06 | | Subject: | Re: Seller not responsible | | Viewed: | 58 times | | Topic: | Buying | |
|
| In Buying, crazylegoman writes:
| | In Buying, firestar246 writes:
| | In Buying, crazylegoman writes:
| | In Help, S_H_M writes:
| | Can a seller put in terms which are
against the law?
|
Those terms are not against the law.
|
If the seller is using paypal, then it is against paypal's terms. And its
against BL terms I'm pretty sure.
|
I searched PayPal's terms and found nothing saying that. Do you have a reference/link
for your claim? I also searched BL's terms for such a rule and found none.
Do you have any reference for this?
|
On their buyer protection page
https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/paypal-safety-and-security
Under, you are protected if…
2. Your order never arrives.
All you have to do is log in to your account and open a dispute to get the refund
process started. If you made the purchase on eBay, start here instead.
Paired with this information in the Seller protection page
https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/security/seller-protection
Additional Requirements
For “Item Not Received” cases:
- The payment must be marked “eligible” or “partially eligible” on the Transaction
Details page.
- You must provide proof of delivery for the item
There is more detailed description in their terms
https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full#seller-protection
Essentially, if the buyer never receives the package, they can open a PayPal
claim. They will win unless the seller can provide proof of DELIVERY (not just
shipment), or the package was ineligible for buyer/seller protection for some
reason. Therefore PayPal views the items as the sellers responsibility until
delivered to the buyer.
| |
| | | | YES! That's what you should've done in the first place! Blaming
the seller for a mistake made by the postal service is just nonsense.
|
No its not. That's what insurance is for; to protect the seller, not the
buyer. If you buy from any major company and the package never arrives; what
are they going to do? Either send you another item or reimburse you. What makes
you think yourself or any other BL sellers shouldn't be held to those same
standards?
|
The original message from the buyer did not mention insurance. I can say from
personal experience that NOT every major company is going to send you new merchandise
or reimburse you if the postal service loses your package.
Your claims are based on nothing solid, so I remain thoroughly unconvinced.
David
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | crazylegoman | | Posted: | Jun 23, 2021 23:02 | | Subject: | Re: Seller not responsible | | Viewed: | 83 times | | Topic: | Buying | |
|
| In Buying, yensid writes:
| | In Buying, crazylegoman writes:
| | In Buying, firestar246 writes:
| | In Buying, crazylegoman writes:
| | In Help, S_H_M writes:
| | Can a seller put in terms which are
against the law?
|
Those terms are not against the law.
|
If the seller is using paypal, then it is against paypal's terms. And its
against BL terms I'm pretty sure.
|
I searched PayPal's terms and found nothing saying that. Do you have a reference/link
for your claim? I also searched BL's terms for such a rule and found none.
Do you have any reference for this?
|
On their buyer protection page
https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/paypal-safety-and-security
Under, you are protected if…
2. Your order never arrives.
All you have to do is log in to your account and open a dispute to get the refund
process started. If you made the purchase on eBay, start here instead.
Paired with this information in the Seller protection page
https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/security/seller-protection
Additional Requirements
For “Item Not Received” cases:
- The payment must be marked “eligible” or “partially eligible” on the Transaction
Details page.
- You must provide proof of delivery for the item
There is more detailed description in their terms
https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full#seller-protection
Essentially, if the buyer never receives the package, they can open a PayPal
claim. They will win unless the seller can provide proof of DELIVERY (not just
shipment), or the package was ineligible for buyer/seller protection for some
reason. Therefore PayPal views the items as the sellers responsibility until
delivered to the buyer.
| |
| | | | YES! That's what you should've done in the first place! Blaming
the seller for a mistake made by the postal service is just nonsense.
|
No its not. That's what insurance is for; to protect the seller, not the
buyer. If you buy from any major company and the package never arrives; what
are they going to do? Either send you another item or reimburse you. What makes
you think yourself or any other BL sellers shouldn't be held to those same
standards?
|
The original message from the buyer did not mention insurance. I can say from
personal experience that NOT every major company is going to send you new merchandise
or reimburse you if the postal service loses your package.
Your claims are based on nothing solid, so I remain thoroughly unconvinced.
David
|
|
I am totally aware of how a buyer can make a PayPal claim. I also realize that
PayPal typically sides with the buyer, even when a seller provides adequate information
from their end. S_H_M claimed that the seller's terms were against the law.
firestar246 claimed that it's against PayPal's terms to put that condition
in a BL store's terms. That's what I'm disputing. It's not
breaking a law for someone to have terms that say that they are not responsible
for lost packages, regardless of how BL or PayPal view it... at least not in
the U.S.A.
David
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | wildchicken13 | | Posted: | Jun 23, 2021 23:15 | | Subject: | Re: Seller not responsible | | Viewed: | 75 times | | Topic: | Buying | |
|
| In Buying, crazylegoman writes:
| | I am totally aware of how a buyer can make a PayPal claim. I also realize that
PayPal typically sides with the buyer, even when a seller provides adequate information
from their end. S_H_M claimed that the seller's terms were against the law.
firestar246 claimed that it's against PayPal's terms to put that condition
in a BL store's terms. That's what I'm disputing. It's not
breaking a law for someone to have terms that say that they are not responsible
for lost packages, regardless of how BL or PayPal view it... at least not in
the U.S.A.
David
|
It may not be against the law per se, but it's unenforceable and quite frankly
deceptive.
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | tons_of_bricks | | Posted: | Jun 24, 2021 06:24 | | Subject: | Re: Seller not responsible | | Viewed: | 40 times | | Topic: | Buying | |
|
| In Buying, crazylegoman writes:
| | from their end. S_H_M claimed that the seller's terms were against the law.
firestar246 claimed that it's against PayPal's terms to put that condition
in a BL store's terms. That's what I'm disputing. It's not
breaking a law for someone to have terms that say that they are not responsible
for lost packages, regardless of how BL or PayPal view it... at least not in
the U.S.A.
David
|
I never said it was against the law, I said it was against Paypal terms. And
as yensid showed, I am correct. And since you clicked the "I agree" to Paypal's
terms when you signed up, you should be responsible and adhere to them the best
you can.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | crazylegoman | | Posted: | Jun 24, 2021 09:33 | | Subject: | Re: Seller not responsible | | Viewed: | 67 times | | Topic: | Buying | |
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| In Buying, firestar246 writes:
| | In Buying, crazylegoman writes:
| | from their end. S_H_M claimed that the seller's terms were against the law.
firestar246 claimed that it's against PayPal's terms to put that condition
in a BL store's terms. That's what I'm disputing. It's not
breaking a law for someone to have terms that say that they are not responsible
for lost packages, regardless of how BL or PayPal view it... at least not in
the U.S.A.
David
|
I never said it was against the law, I said it was against Paypal terms. And
as yensid showed, I am correct. And since you clicked the "I agree" to Paypal's
terms when you signed up, you should be responsible and adhere to them the best
you can.
|
You must have read the message too quickly and mixed up your user name with S_H_M.
Please reread.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | tons_of_bricks | | Posted: | Jun 24, 2021 13:59 | | Subject: | Re: Seller not responsible | | Viewed: | 59 times | | Topic: | Buying | |
|
| In Buying, crazylegoman writes:
| | In Buying, firestar246 writes:
| | In Buying, crazylegoman writes:
| | from their end. S_H_M claimed that the seller's terms were against the law.
firestar246 claimed that it's against PayPal's terms to put that condition
in a BL store's terms. That's what I'm disputing. It's not
breaking a law for someone to have terms that say that they are not responsible
for lost packages, regardless of how BL or PayPal view it... at least not in
the U.S.A.
David
|
I never said it was against the law, I said it was against Paypal terms. And
as yensid showed, I am correct. And since you clicked the "I agree" to Paypal's
terms when you signed up, you should be responsible and adhere to them the best
you can.
|
You must have read the message too quickly and mixed up your user name with S_H_M.
Please reread.
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Yep, I did. My brain merged those two lines into one.  My bad.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | tons_of_bricks | | Posted: | Jun 23, 2021 13:09 | | Subject: | Re: Seller not responsible | | Viewed: | 53 times | | Topic: | Buying | |
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| In Buying, crazylegoman writes:
| |
Your claims are based on nothing solid, so I remain thoroughly unconvinced.
David
|
How about courtesy to the buyer and good customer service? It's not the buyer's
fault that the package was lost. It's not the seller's either (unless
they packaged it poorly), but when a buyer pays for goods, it is just good business
practice and customer service for the seller to make sure they get them. A buyer
is much more likely to return to a store that reimbursed them for a lost package
than one that does no more then just say, "oh well, better luck next time".
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | tons_of_bricks | | Posted: | Jun 23, 2021 13:14 | | Subject: | Re: Seller not responsible | | Viewed: | 62 times | | Topic: | Buying | |
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| In Buying, firestar246 writes:
| | In Buying, crazylegoman writes:
| |
Your claims are based on nothing solid, so I remain thoroughly unconvinced.
David
|
How about courtesy to the buyer and good customer service? It's not the buyer's
fault that the package was lost. It's not the seller's either (unless
they packaged it poorly), but when a buyer pays for goods, it is just good business
practice and customer service for the seller to make sure they get them. A buyer
is much more likely to return to a store that reimbursed them for a lost package
than one that does no more then just say, "oh well, better luck next time".
|
I'll also say that good customer service is what separates the good stores
from the bad stores. But going above and beyond just legal obligations is what
separates the great stores from the good stores.
So I guess it all depends on what kind of store you're content to be.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | cosmicray | | Posted: | Jun 23, 2021 12:10 | | Subject: | Re: Seller not responsible | | Viewed: | 56 times | | Topic: | Buying | |
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| In Buying, firestar246 writes:
| | In Buying, crazylegoman writes:
| | In Help, S_H_M writes:
| | Can a seller put in terms which are
against the law?
|
Those terms are not against the law.
|
If the seller is using paypal, then it is against paypal's terms. And its
against BL terms I'm pretty sure.
| |
YES! That's what you should've done in the first place! Blaming
the seller for a mistake made by the postal service is just nonsense.
|
No its not. That's what insurance is for; to protect the seller, not the
buyer. If you buy from any major company and the package never arrives; what
are they going to do? Either send you another item or reimburse you. What makes
you think yourself or any other BL sellers shouldn't be held to those same
standards?
|
Insurance typically does not pay for a lost package until a very long time has
elapsed. Every customer wants their package as soon as possible. Insurance isn't
going to solve this (unless large numbers of packages are going missing and never
being delivered). The solution is better tracking, and (where possible) use handling
that does not involve the postal service until the last mile. That is how China
shippers are able to get a package to the US in ~2 weeks. They are carried in
bulk, then inserted into USPS very close to the destination.
Nita Rae
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | cosmicray | | Posted: | Jun 23, 2021 12:17 | | Subject: | Re: Seller not responsible | | Viewed: | 57 times | | Topic: | Buying | |
|
| In Buying, cosmicray writes:
| | In Buying, firestar246 writes:
| | In Buying, crazylegoman writes:
| | In Help, S_H_M writes:
| | Can a seller put in terms which are
against the law?
|
Those terms are not against the law.
|
If the seller is using paypal, then it is against paypal's terms. And its
against BL terms I'm pretty sure.
| |
YES! That's what you should've done in the first place! Blaming
the seller for a mistake made by the postal service is just nonsense.
|
No its not. That's what insurance is for; to protect the seller, not the
buyer. If you buy from any major company and the package never arrives; what
are they going to do? Either send you another item or reimburse you. What makes
you think yourself or any other BL sellers shouldn't be held to those same
standards?
|
Insurance typically does not pay for a lost package until a very long time has
elapsed. Every customer wants their package as soon as possible. Insurance isn't
going to solve this (unless large numbers of packages are going missing and never
being delivered). The solution is better tracking, and (where possible) use handling
that does not involve the postal service until the last mile. That is how China
shippers are able to get a package to the US in ~2 weeks. They are carried in
bulk, then inserted into USPS very close to the destination.
Nita Rae
|
This is a good description of SpeedPAK, and why China sellers have a such an
advantage in sales to the US, and soon to other countries. We need something
similar to Europe and SE Asia.
https://parcelsapp.com/en/carriers/speedpak
Nita Rae
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| | | | | Author: | jennnifer | | Posted: | Jun 23, 2021 10:13 | | Subject: | Re: Seller not responsible ? | | Viewed: | 81 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, S_H_M writes:
| | Hi All,
I ordered parts from a well known seller in the US and paid by paypal. It was
shipped by USPS with tracking. Package hasn't been scanned since 18 may,
so that's not good.
When I contacted the seller, he referred to his TOS where he stated that he
is not responsible for lost packages.
Well I think (read know) he is because he's an official seller so (at least
in Europe not sure how it is in the US) a seller is responsible for the delivery
of the goods. And secondly he accepted a payment by paypal so he is bound to
paypal terms.
What are you're thoughts about this ? Can a seller put in terms which are
against the law ? Should BL make an general TOS where all sellers are bound
too ? should I read his terms and not place the order ?
|
I sent two international packages from Chicago on May 26. Neither one has been
scanned since the 30th when they left my local post office. I wouldn't declare
your package lost just yet. Things are very, very slow right now.
On the other hand, your seller should be working with you at this point, not
denying responsibility.
I wish more buyers would stop shopping at stores that publicly say they won't
help their customers. There is nothing illegal in the US about their terms. It's
just not good business. 
Jen
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| | | | | Author: | kzinti | | Posted: | Jun 23, 2021 15:02 | | Subject: | Re: Seller not responsible ? | | Viewed: | 71 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, S_H_M writes:
| | Hi All,
I ordered parts from a well known seller in the US and paid by paypal. It was
shipped by USPS with tracking. Package hasn't been scanned since 18 may,
so that's not good.
When I contacted the seller, he referred to his TOS where he stated that he
is not responsible for lost packages.
Well I think (read know) he is because he's an official seller so (at least
in Europe not sure how it is in the US) a seller is responsible for the delivery
of the goods. And secondly he accepted a payment by paypal so he is bound to
paypal terms.
What are you're thoughts about this ? Can a seller put in terms which are
against the law ? Should BL make an general TOS where all sellers are bound
too ? should I read his terms and not place the order ?
|
USPS is a four letter word. Postage cost has increased in direct proportion to
the decline in the level of service. I would urge patience, after explaining
about the current state of the US Postal service. I've had packages take
two or three months to reach Germany and Switzerland at times.
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Belgium
United Kingdom, England
USA, Missouri
Netherlands, Gelderland
Canada, Saskatchewan
Greece, East Macedonia and Thrace
