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| | Author: | minifigmountain | Posted: | May 5, 2021 23:53 | Subject: | Return/refund if Paypal account is closed? | Viewed: | 201 times | Topic: | Problem Order | |
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| Hi everyone -
Quite the story. A woman wrote me tonight saying her 12 year old son had placed
two orders from me using her credit card which she did not authorize. He set
up his own Paypal account linked to her card. She gave me two order numbers that
were linked to the same user, so it seems legit. She has since talked to Paypal
and they had the account "restricted" (is the term she used).
I am going to send her a label to ship all of the LEGO back to me and obviously
check that it is all there and in the same condition upon return. But my shields
are up that this is some kind of scam still.
What do I need to look out for from a Paypal and Bricklink perspective? I don't
want her to ship the LEGO back, then I send her a refund to some other Paypal
account, then the original buyer claims they never got the LEGO from me and I'm
out double my money.
Any thoughts on best plan of action or documentation I need? Do I just need to
tell her I can only refund to the original Paypal account and it's up to
her to figure out how to access that money later?
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| | | | Author: | randyipp | Posted: | May 6, 2021 00:12 | Subject: | Re: Return/refund if Paypal account is closed? | Viewed: | 64 times | Topic: | Problem Order | |
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| In Problem Order, steveschow writes:
| Any thoughts on best plan of action or documentation I need? Do I just need to
tell her I can only refund to the original Paypal account and it's up to
her to figure out how to access that money later?
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Wow, quite the story from the buyer. If a purchase is made with a credit card
through PayPal a refund will go back to that same credit card, not the PayPal
account. If she asked for money to a different account and had already spoken
to PayPal, this sounds like a scam.
With that said I think you are approaching correctly offering a refund upon return
of goods, if the story is true then it's a bad situation all around. Sadly
I don't think there is liability on the parents even though that is where
it should be placed.
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| | | | Author: | ZebrasBricks | Posted: | May 6, 2021 01:16 | Subject: | Re: Return/refund if Paypal account is closed? | Viewed: | 60 times | Topic: | Problem Order | |
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| I got the exact same story about Diego from IL, maybe it’s just a big coincidence
but I doubt it.
Didn’t tell me anything about the closed PP account though.
He had a feedback of 9 last time I checked so he must have made quite a few purchases
until his parents caught up.
I messaged her back, but refunding her purchase to another PP account would be
out of the question for me.
I mentioned all the fees I’d have to deduct and the fact that if the new minifigures
are returned in a different condition than received her refund would be a lot
lower.
I don’t think it’s a scam, maybe just a kid who loves LEGO a bit too much and
found a way to log into his mom’s PP account
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| | | | | | Author: | minifigmountain | Posted: | May 6, 2021 10:51 | Subject: | Re: Return/refund if Paypal account is closed? | Viewed: | 49 times | Topic: | Problem Order | |
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| Yep, same guy. She didn't explicitly ask for a refund to a different account,
I said we'd figure it out once I got the product back. Just vetting my plan
here before it got to that point.
I am also tempted to withhold all of the fees and shipping costs from her refund
(this kid bought $140 worth of product over 2 orders). You don't think there's
any way she could try and chargeback or claim fraud on those funds if I didn't
refund her 100%? Seems unfair that I not be made whole for this kid's mistake.
In Problem Order, Zebrasattic writes:
| I got the exact same story about Diego from IL, maybe it’s just a big coincidence
but I doubt it.
Didn’t tell me anything about the closed PP account though.
He had a feedback of 9 last time I checked so he must have made quite a few purchases
until his parents caught up.
I messaged her back, but refunding her purchase to another PP account would be
out of the question for me.
I mentioned all the fees I’d have to deduct and the fact that if the new minifigures
are returned in a different condition than received her refund would be a lot
lower.
I don’t think it’s a scam, maybe just a kid who loves LEGO a bit too much and
found a way to log into his mom’s PP account
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| | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | Posted: | May 6, 2021 10:57 | Subject: | Re: Return/refund if Paypal account is closed? | Viewed: | 43 times | Topic: | Problem Order | |
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| In Problem Order, steveschow writes:
| […]
I am also tempted to withhold all of the fees and shipping costs from her refund
(this kid bought $140 worth of product over 2 orders). You don't think there's
any way she could try and chargeback or claim fraud on those funds if I didn't
refund her 100%? Seems unfair that I not be made whole for this kid's mistake.
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Is that already in your terms?
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| | | | | | | | Author: | ZebrasBricks | Posted: | May 6, 2021 13:34 | Subject: | Re: Return/refund if Paypal account is closed? | Viewed: | 34 times | Topic: | Problem Order | |
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| I don't see why you feel you need to send her a prepaid label, you are in
no way liable for purchases made my members of her family on BrickLink and paid
through PayPal with her CC. She should mail the items back at her own expense
You should totally withhold any taxes and fees especially from 2 orders totaling
$140; that's a lot in PP and BL fees you shouldn't lose just because
some parents can't control their kids.
My order was around $33, after deducting all the fees and s/h charges it's
down to around $24.50.
Also, don't know about your order but mine contained 3 brand new minifigures,
if they are not returned in the exact condition as received her refund fill be
much lower
If she opens a Paypal Claim I'm expecting she will lose the case because
it's not fraud if your CC was used by your underage child
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| | | | | | | | | | Author: | minifigmountain | Posted: | May 6, 2021 14:54 | Subject: | Re: Return/refund if Paypal account is closed? | Viewed: | 35 times | Topic: | Problem Order | |
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| I err on the side of being too nice to people, since I'm running this store
because I love LEGO, not to support my family. I sent the prepaid label to give
her a sense of urgency to get it all back to me. But I'm getting pretty worked
up over how this whole thing is inconveniencing me, so yeah, I'm going to
deduct all 3 shipping costs and fees from whatever I return to her. (Also USPS
lost 3 of my packages today which I now have to refund so now I'm especially
sensitive to bleeding money)
As to the other commenter, it is not in my terms but it will be now. I've
only been open 3 months and this is a hobby-quickly-turned-business so I'm
learning as I go.
In Problem Order, Zebrasattic writes:
| I don't see why you feel you need to send her a prepaid label, you are in
no way liable for purchases made my members of her family on BrickLink and paid
through PayPal with her CC. She should mail the items back at her own expense
You should totally withhold any taxes and fees especially from 2 orders totaling
$140; that's a lot in PP and BL fees you shouldn't lose just because
some parents can't control their kids.
My order was around $33, after deducting all the fees and s/h charges it's
down to around $24.50.
Also, don't know about your order but mine contained 3 brand new minifigures,
if they are not returned in the exact condition as received her refund fill be
much lower
If she opens a Paypal Claim I'm expecting she will lose the case because
it's not fraud if your CC was used by your underage child
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | peregrinator | Posted: | May 6, 2021 15:16 | Subject: | Re: Return/refund if Paypal account is closed? | Viewed: | 33 times | Topic: | Problem Order | |
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| Is there a reason she can't simply use "return to sender"? It won't be
tracked, of course, but it is free.
In Problem Order, steveschow writes:
| I err on the side of being too nice to people, since I'm running this store
because I love LEGO, not to support my family. I sent the prepaid label to give
her a sense of urgency to get it all back to me. But I'm getting pretty worked
up over how this whole thing is inconveniencing me, so yeah, I'm going to
deduct all 3 shipping costs and fees from whatever I return to her. (Also USPS
lost 3 of my packages today which I now have to refund so now I'm especially
sensitive to bleeding money)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Yo_Yo_Flamingo | Posted: | May 6, 2021 15:23 | Subject: | Re: Return/refund if Paypal account is closed? | Viewed: | 32 times | Topic: | Problem Order | |
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| In Problem Order, peregrinator writes:
| Is there a reason she can't simply use "return to sender"? It won't be
tracked, of course, but it is free.
In Problem Order, steveschow writes:
| I err on the side of being too nice to people, since I'm running this store
because I love LEGO, not to support my family. I sent the prepaid label to give
her a sense of urgency to get it all back to me. But I'm getting pretty worked
up over how this whole thing is inconveniencing me, so yeah, I'm going to
deduct all 3 shipping costs and fees from whatever I return to her. (Also USPS
lost 3 of my packages today which I now have to refund so now I'm especially
sensitive to bleeding money)
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Not if you already receive/open the package. The post office does not offer free
returns.
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| | | | Author: | yorbrick | Posted: | May 6, 2021 03:05 | Subject: | Re: Return/refund if Paypal account is closed? | Viewed: | 49 times | Topic: | Problem Order | |
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| In Problem Order, steveschow writes:
| Hi everyone -
Quite the story. A woman wrote me tonight saying her 12 year old son had placed
two orders from me using her credit card which she did not authorize. He set
up his own Paypal account linked to her card. She gave me two order numbers that
were linked to the same user, so it seems legit. She has since talked to Paypal
and they had the account "restricted" (is the term she used).
I am going to send her a label to ship all of the LEGO back to me and obviously
check that it is all there and in the same condition upon return. But my shields
are up that this is some kind of scam still.
What do I need to look out for from a Paypal and Bricklink perspective? I don't
want her to ship the LEGO back, then I send her a refund to some other Paypal
account, then the original buyer claims they never got the LEGO from me and I'm
out double my money.
Any thoughts on best plan of action or documentation I need? Do I just need to
tell her I can only refund to the original Paypal account and it's up to
her to figure out how to access that money later?
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Has the 'buyer's said what condition the sets are in? I somehow doubt
they are sealed or complete if they were sold used. For the parent to notice
money gone from their credit card could be weeks from the purchase date.
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| | | | | | Author: | minifigmountain | Posted: | May 6, 2021 14:56 | Subject: | Re: Return/refund if Paypal account is closed? | Viewed: | 24 times | Topic: | Problem Order | |
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| They were all minifigs that were purchased. Luckily for me they were used, but
I will be closely scrutinizing all for any additional damage that was not listed
at the time of sale.
In Problem Order, yorbrick writes:
| In Problem Order, steveschow writes:
| Hi everyone -
Quite the story. A woman wrote me tonight saying her 12 year old son had placed
two orders from me using her credit card which she did not authorize. He set
up his own Paypal account linked to her card. She gave me two order numbers that
were linked to the same user, so it seems legit. She has since talked to Paypal
and they had the account "restricted" (is the term she used).
I am going to send her a label to ship all of the LEGO back to me and obviously
check that it is all there and in the same condition upon return. But my shields
are up that this is some kind of scam still.
What do I need to look out for from a Paypal and Bricklink perspective? I don't
want her to ship the LEGO back, then I send her a refund to some other Paypal
account, then the original buyer claims they never got the LEGO from me and I'm
out double my money.
Any thoughts on best plan of action or documentation I need? Do I just need to
tell her I can only refund to the original Paypal account and it's up to
her to figure out how to access that money later?
|
Has the 'buyer's said what condition the sets are in? I somehow doubt
they are sealed or complete if they were sold used. For the parent to notice
money gone from their credit card could be weeks from the purchase date.
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| | | | Author: | peregrinator | Posted: | May 6, 2021 08:51 | Subject: | Re: Return/refund if Paypal account is closed? | Viewed: | 50 times | Topic: | Problem Order | |
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| In Problem Order, steveschow writes:
| Hi everyone -
Quite the story. A woman wrote me tonight saying her 12 year old son had placed
two orders from me using her credit card which she did not authorize. He set
up his own Paypal account linked to her card. She gave me two order numbers that
were linked to the same user, so it seems legit. She has since talked to Paypal
and they had the account "restricted" (is the term she used).
|
A restricted PayPal account can't send or withdraw money but it sounds
like it can receive money (e.g. refunds):
https://www.paypal.com/be/smarthelp/article/how-do-i-remove-the-restriction-from-my-account-faq2189
Presumably the restriction can be removed (since it was restricted at her request)
so the money goes back to her credit card.
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| | | | Author: | NCBrickhouse | Posted: | May 6, 2021 13:25 | Subject: | Re: Return/refund if Paypal account is closed? | Viewed: | 36 times | Topic: | Problem Order | |
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| I got the same email from the mother. I told her that I will be happy to refund
the cost of the items minus shipping/fees once I get the items back and ensure
they are in the same condition as when they were shipped. I never anticipated
this type of thing occurring so navigating this with quite a bit of uncertainty
on the proper process.
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| | | | | | Author: | minifigmountain | Posted: | May 6, 2021 14:57 | Subject: | Re: Return/refund if Paypal account is closed? | Viewed: | 42 times | Topic: | Problem Order | |
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| This kid really got around. Well, keep us updated if you get your product back
and if it's in same condition as before. I'll do the same.
In Problem Order, NC_Bricks writes:
| I got the same email from the mother. I told her that I will be happy to refund
the cost of the items minus shipping/fees once I get the items back and ensure
they are in the same condition as when they were shipped. I never anticipated
this type of thing occurring so navigating this with quite a bit of uncertainty
on the proper process.
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| | | | | | | | Author: | ZebrasBricks | Posted: | May 13, 2021 20:32 | Subject: | Re: Return/refund if Paypal account is closed? | Viewed: | 50 times | Topic: | Problem Order | |
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| Here with the update from my side of this story:
The return package arrived today and as expected, the figures are NOT in the
same condition as I sent them:
The brand new sh573 Ironman figure has had the helmet removed from the sealed
plastic package.
The brand new col16 Banana Suit guy ( opened just to check contents) is now missing
the package, the leaflet and the black stand.
One torso and legs got replaced with 2 different torso and legs
After removing the taxes, fees and my s/h charges her refund is at $24.50.
Now I just have to figure out how much to deduct for the missing parts and from
all the figures not being in new condition anymore.
As expected, this has been a hassle from start to finish. I’m still waiting for
a PayPal chargeback to happen after the partial refund is processed.
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| | | | | | | | | | Author: | NCBrickhouse | Posted: | May 16, 2021 13:59 | Subject: | Re: Return/refund if Paypal account is closed? | Viewed: | 47 times | Topic: | Problem Order | |
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| In Problem Order, Zebrasattic writes:
| Here with the update from my side of this story:
The return package arrived today and as expected, the figures are NOT in the
same condition as I sent them:
The brand new sh573 Ironman figure has had the helmet removed from the sealed
plastic package.
The brand new col16 Banana Suit guy ( opened just to check contents) is now missing
the package, the leaflet and the black stand.
One torso and legs got replaced with 2 different torso and legs
After removing the taxes, fees and my s/h charges her refund is at $24.50.
Now I just have to figure out how much to deduct for the missing parts and from
all the figures not being in new condition anymore.
As expected, this has been a hassle from start to finish. I’m still waiting for
a PayPal chargeback to happen after the partial refund is processed.
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I got my items back as well and while some looked as sent, several did not (including
a wrong Chewbacca head/torso, and a nicked torso on one and a cracked torso on
another). I assume I can't list the new minifigs as new since they were put
together by him so there's that loss too. I'm still trying to calculate
the right amount to refund. I called PayPal and they confirmed to never refund
to a different account (as Zorbanj said). They also assured me she can get the
funds back and that she can reach out to PayPal if she needs help. I pray we
don't get a chargeback after refunding too.
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| | | | Author: | zorbanj | Posted: | May 6, 2021 16:11 | Subject: | Re: Return/refund if Paypal account is closed? | Viewed: | 52 times | Topic: | Problem Order | |
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| In Problem Order, steveschow writes:
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What do I need to look out for from a Paypal and Bricklink perspective? I don't
want her to ship the LEGO back, then I send her a refund to some other Paypal
account, then the original buyer claims they never got the LEGO from me and I'm
out double my money.
Any thoughts on best plan of action or documentation I need? Do I just need to
tell her I can only refund to the original Paypal account and it's up to
her to figure out how to access that money later?
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Never, never, ever refund to a different paypal account. Log into paypal and
refund each order separately straight from there. Do not lump the 2 refunds together
and do not refund any shipping costs, PayPal fees or Bricklink fees. If the buyer's
PayPal account is restricted it's up to her to straighten that mess out.
Also, do not refund until you've received the returns and looked them over.
You said the orders were for used minifigs. The minifigs are likely ok (unless
this is a swithceroo) but if there were minfig accessories those don't always
all make it back.
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| | | | | | Author: | NCBrickhouse | Posted: | May 12, 2021 09:37 | Subject: | Re: Return/refund if Paypal account is closed? | Viewed: | 38 times | Topic: | Problem Order | |
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| Good advice. The mother also asked me to refund to a different PayPal, but I
agree with your advice to refund to the same account and let PayPal sort it out.
I have been given a tracking number for the package being returned to me so I
will go over everything thoroughly when it arrives.
In Problem Order, zorbanj writes:
| In Problem Order, steveschow writes:
|
What do I need to look out for from a Paypal and Bricklink perspective? I don't
want her to ship the LEGO back, then I send her a refund to some other Paypal
account, then the original buyer claims they never got the LEGO from me and I'm
out double my money.
Any thoughts on best plan of action or documentation I need? Do I just need to
tell her I can only refund to the original Paypal account and it's up to
her to figure out how to access that money later?
|
Never, never, ever refund to a different paypal account. Log into paypal and
refund each order separately straight from there. Do not lump the 2 refunds together
and do not refund any shipping costs, PayPal fees or Bricklink fees. If the buyer's
PayPal account is restricted it's up to her to straighten that mess out.
Also, do not refund until you've received the returns and looked them over.
You said the orders were for used minifigs. The minifigs are likely ok (unless
this is a swithceroo) but if there were minfig accessories those don't always
all make it back.
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