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| | | Author: | StormChaser  | | Posted: | Apr 1, 2021 04:59 | | Subject: | Items Moved Today | | Viewed: | 199 times | | Topic: | Catalog | | Status: | Open | |
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| Everything on this list has been moved except for the last two items:
https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=2487
We ran into a brief hiccup with those item type changes, but we plan to get them
moved later today. Let us know if you see anything on the list we missed.
As some of you already noticed, the list of moved items is about 1/9th the proposed
size. For a variety of reasons, we weren't able to accomplish the other
changes. This does not necessarily mean they won't happen, but merely that
they aren't happening right now.
For our October 1st, 2021 list, we're doing things differently to reduce
confusion. We'll post a page for that soon and begin listing items between
now and then. We'll lock it down on September 1st and every single item
placed on the October 1st page will be moved.
For anyone wondering about this process, our goal was to reduce confusion about
where things belong in the catalog. The project consisted of two steps:
1. Define in writing what should be in each category.
2. Move parts as necessary to conform with written definitions.
We've completed step one, for the most part (although it's still being
tweaked here and there). Now we're working (slowly) through step two.
Let us know if you have any questions or comments.
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| | | | | Author: | Turez | | Posted: | Apr 1, 2021 07:25 | | Subject: | Re: Items Moved Today | | Viewed: | 59 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| Was it not originally announced that there would be some time for sellers and
anyone else to prepare for these changes? How will that work if the final list
is just published right on the day when the changes are made?
And am I seeing it right that there are some additions (especially the category
changes) which were not part of the original list that was published one month
ago? Despite the fact that it was said there would not be any additions to that
list after March 1st?
Please don't get me wrong, I very much appreciate all the time and effort
you and anyone who is involved are putting into this changes. But with that final
(and rather short) list it feels a bit like a missed opportunity and (regarding
the points mentioned above) yet another instance of bad communication. I am therefore
glad that you will adjust the procedure next time.
As for the changes themselves, I'm fine with them with one exeption: I would
suggest to not move
and
to "Plate, Modified" as long as
has to stay in "Plate". I don't care whether these three parts are in "Plate"
or in "Plate, Modified" but it makes absolutely no sense and creates even more
inconistency to have them in different categories.
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| | | | | | | Author: | tons_of_bricks | | Posted: | Apr 1, 2021 07:45 | | Subject: | Re: Items Moved Today | | Viewed: | 52 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog, Turez writes:
| | And am I seeing it right that there are some additions (especially the category
changes) which were not part of the original list that was published one month
ago? Despite the fact that it was said there would not be any additions to that
list after March 1st?
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Yeah, that cross plate was NOT in the list before; I'm certain. Also the
Arch name change; they literally had a statement on that page a couple days ago
saying that no category name changes or additions would be approved.
Hopefully the new method that Stormchaser has mentioned will help with this confusion.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | tons_of_bricks | | Posted: | Apr 1, 2021 11:12 | | Subject: | Re: Items Moved Today | | Viewed: | 60 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog, Admin_Russell writes:
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I'm preparing a statement about this current round of changes that will help
explain the decisions that were made. But real quick, while I am reading this,
I can let you know that all three of those parts WERE included in the original
list. They were listed under the 2 x 2 corner as related parts that would also
be moved.
Two of them were moved, and two remained behind.
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Oh... ok; that explains it. Perhaps in the future parts with totally different
shapes shouldn't be under the related parts. I understand the variations
and decorated items, but I wouldn't of thought that the corner and cross
as related.
But anyway, thank you for your response and communication. It is appreciated
by many, I'm sure, even if they don't say so.  I look forward to your
statement as I hope that will clear up some of the confusion of this round.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | jennnifer | | Posted: | Apr 4, 2021 20:24 | | Subject: | Re: Items Moved Today | | Viewed: | 68 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog, Admin_Russell writes:
| |
I'm preparing a statement about this current round of changes that will help
explain the decisions that were made.
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Bump.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | jennnifer | | Posted: | Apr 11, 2021 22:17 | | Subject: | Re: Items Moved Today | | Viewed: | 51 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog, Admin_Russell writes:
| |
I'm preparing a statement about this current round of changes that will help
explain the decisions that were made.
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Bump.
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| | | | | Author: | Admin_Russell | | Posted: | Apr 12, 2021 01:39 | | Subject: | Re: Items Moved Today | | Viewed: | 109 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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BrickLink
ID CardAdmin_Russell
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Location:  USA, California |
| Member Since |
Contact |
Type |
Status |
| May 9, 2017 |
 |
Admin |
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| BrickLink Administrator |
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| In Catalog, StormChaser writes:
Comments concerning the April 1 category change list
The idea of a larger-scale change conducted twice per year is working well and
is superior to occasional changes that are harder to draw everyone’s attention
to. So, the good news is that for the foreseeable future, we will shift categories
mainly at those times, with the current organizational structure. We still may
adjust categories at any time, though, as we will need to do soon for tax reasons
– think magazines and children’s clothes.
The bad news, at least for the moment, is that many of the proposed changes were
not approved by admin. Here are the main reasons for this:
1) This was a very large list of parts, about 70% larger than the one we worked
with in October. The larger the list, the larger the potential disruption.
2) The parts in the original April 1 list are much more common than those in
the previous list. There are some obscure and some common parts in both lists,
but as a whole, moving parts in the original April 1 list would have had an exponentially
larger impact. Even if we were ok with all of the changes, we would not want
to move this many at one time.
3) No new categories or category retitling was approved other than a couple cases
where we moved in the opposite direction. In most of the proposed cases, the
category names were longer. Generally speaking, category names are better when
they are shorter and listed on their own instead of listed alongside “Brick,…”
and “Plate,…” categories.
4) We should look at splitting the liftarms into basic and modified in the future.
The reason for not doing it now is because the split is not well enough defined.
There are several points at which a liftarm could become "modified". Even the
basic ones with bent ends could be considered modified to a degree, and that
would leave us with about 10 thick ones. But then there are thin ones too.
There is also the complication of a few decorated parts that would strictly need
their own "Technic, Liftarm, Modified, Decorated" category.
5) There were unfortunately two items on the list that we planned to change but
we couldn’t, due to problems with the admin tools. These two items are currently
listed as changes for Oct 1, 2021. We hope to have the tools repaired soon.
https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=2509
For the rest of the changes, I will address them subject by subject. Today we’ll
talk about corner parts:
**********************************************************
Part 1: Corner bricks, corner plates, and corner tiles
The 4 x 4 Corner Brick, the 2 x 2 Corner Brick, 2 x 2 Corner Plate, and the 4
x 4 Corner Plate were part of the original BrickLink catalog before March 25,
2001 when entry dates started to be recorded.
And there is no record of them having changed category after May 7, 2002 when
the old catalog change log was activated:
https://www.bricklink.com/js/cataloglog.txt
The Corner Tile and Cross Plate were added in late 2013, and the 2 x 3 Plate
with Cutout was added about 3 months ago. The 2 x 2 Corner Tile was placed in
a basic category out of consideration for the other corner elements.
So what we have done in this category is to revert back to the way things were
at the very earliest time on BrickLink. And looking even further back, the 4
x 4 Corner Brick was part of the very earliest LEGO building sets that were ever
produced, the Classic Bricks (the ones with slots):
[p=bslot16]
It is these facts that make the “corner” parts an exception when we are categorizing
shapes. It’s the nature of what LEGO bricks have always been to include the corners
with the other more strictly rectangular shapes.
That doesn’t mean, of course, that we will never move these parts. Just that
when we are being careful and moving things in logical stages, we need to recognize
that the inclusion of the “corner” elements is a completely different matter
than that of the 3 x 3 Cross Plate or the 2 x 3 Plate with Cutout, or other
parts like the 4 x 4 Plate with Center Cutout that could have been included with
the “basic” list had we gone another direction.
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| | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Apr 12, 2021 05:44 | | Subject: | Re: Items Moved Today | | Viewed: | 64 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| | | The idea of a larger-scale change conducted twice per year is working well and
is superior to occasional changes that are harder to draw everyone’s attention
to. So, the good news is that for the foreseeable future, we will shift categories
mainly at those times, with the current organizational structure.
...
2) The parts in the original April 1 list are much more common than those in
the previous list. There are some obscure and some common parts in both lists,
but as a whole, moving parts in the original April 1 list would have had an exponentially
larger impact. Even if we were ok with all of the changes, we would not want
to move this many at one time.
|
You seems to be favouring twice yearly large moves instead of smaller ones, but
then go on to say there were too many to move. What is the plan here, to roll
those over to the next move and possibly bumping other parts of that move if
the list becomes too long again?
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Apr 12, 2021 11:18 | | Subject: | Re: Items Moved Today | | Viewed: | 43 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog, yorbrick writes:
| | | | The idea of a larger-scale change conducted twice per year is working well and
is superior to occasional changes that are harder to draw everyone’s attention
to. So, the good news is that for the foreseeable future, we will shift categories
mainly at those times, with the current organizational structure.
...
2) The parts in the original April 1 list are much more common than those in
the previous list. There are some obscure and some common parts in both lists,
but as a whole, moving parts in the original April 1 list would have had an exponentially
larger impact. Even if we were ok with all of the changes, we would not want
to move this many at one time.
|
You seems to be favouring twice yearly large moves instead of smaller ones, but
then go on to say there were too many to move. What is the plan here, to roll
those over to the next move and possibly bumping other parts of that move if
the list becomes too long again?
|
That was exactly what I've been wondering for a while. The logic of not wanting
"too much" at one time escapes me. The more often things change, the messier
it is. I may open my main store back up once all of this is over (late 2022 or
so) in the meantime it's just too much chaos for me and not really worth
the hassle.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Greenbutterfly | | Posted: | Apr 19, 2021 10:52 | | Subject: | Re: Items Moved Today | | Viewed: | 51 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog, Teup writes:
| | In Catalog, yorbrick writes:
| | | | The idea of a larger-scale change conducted twice per year is working well and
is superior to occasional changes that are harder to draw everyone’s attention
to. So, the good news is that for the foreseeable future, we will shift categories
mainly at those times, with the current organizational structure.
...
2) The parts in the original April 1 list are much more common than those in
the previous list. There are some obscure and some common parts in both lists,
but as a whole, moving parts in the original April 1 list would have had an exponentially
larger impact. Even if we were ok with all of the changes, we would not want
to move this many at one time.
|
You seems to be favouring twice yearly large moves instead of smaller ones, but
then go on to say there were too many to move. What is the plan here, to roll
those over to the next move and possibly bumping other parts of that move if
the list becomes too long again?
|
That was exactly what I've been wondering for a while. The logic of not wanting
"too much" at one time escapes me. The more often things change, the messier
it is. I may open my main store back up once all of this is over (late 2022 or
so) in the meantime it's just too much chaos for me and not really worth
the hassle.
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I'll say it's also been a massive hassle for me the last few days, thinking
I'm going more nuts than usual with my chemo.
I have several large wanted lists for long-term models that I'm slowly accreting
parts. One of them has minifigure parts for statues. I spent several hours today
trying to hunt down all these parts after changes. They used to all be grouped
together but now arms are in one page, the torsos are 5 pages on (with the 100-parts-per-page
setting) and so on.
This is going to be a massive nightmare for me to do something like order just
the minifigure parts. They're now no longer selectable in nearly one go.
Ditto the animals.
If this process is going to continue, then I'd strongly recommend wanted
list sorting have a new extra option of sorting by item category, then name...
not just item name. So that there's at least some way of getting back to
that original sort order.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Apr 19, 2021 11:32 | | Subject: | Re: Items Moved Today | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog, Greenbutterfly writes:
| | […]
If this process is going to continue, then I'd strongly recommend wanted
list sorting have a new extra option of sorting by item category, then name...
not just item name. So that there's at least some way of getting back to
that original sort order.
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(Most of the) names start with the category, so the sort is already half there.
Also, as the change was moving items between categories, even if the WLs were
sorted by Cat name » item name, the items would still have been sorted differently.
Maybe you could use more, smaller Wanted Lists instead of one (or a few) big
one(s)? (You can buy from several WLs at once.)
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| | | | | Author: | Greenbutterfly | | Posted: | Apr 19, 2021 11:14 | | Subject: | Re: Items Moved Today | | Viewed: | 44 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog, StormChaser writes:
| | Everything on this list has been moved except for the last two items:
https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=2487
We ran into a brief hiccup with those item type changes, but we plan to get them
moved later today. Let us know if you see anything on the list we missed.
As some of you already noticed, the list of moved items is about 1/9th the proposed
size. For a variety of reasons, we weren't able to accomplish the other
changes. This does not necessarily mean they won't happen, but merely that
they aren't happening right now.
For our October 1st, 2021 list, we're doing things differently to reduce
confusion. We'll post a page for that soon and begin listing items between
now and then. We'll lock it down on September 1st and every single item
placed on the October 1st page will be moved.
For anyone wondering about this process, our goal was to reduce confusion about
where things belong in the catalog. The project consisted of two steps:
1. Define in writing what should be in each category.
2. Move parts as necessary to conform with written definitions.
We've completed step one, for the most part (although it's still being
tweaked here and there). Now we're working (slowly) through step two.
Let us know if you have any questions or comments.
|
Also, is it just my imagination, but it seems a lot of the recent category/name
changes are taking BL along the path towards the naming conventions used in LDD's
catalogue...
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| | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Apr 19, 2021 11:38 | | Subject: | Re: Items Moved Today | | Viewed: | 40 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog, Greenbutterfly writes:
| | […]
Also, is it just my imagination, but it seems a lot of the recent category/name
changes are taking BL along the path towards the naming conventions used in LDD's
catalogue...
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It can’t be a move toward TLG/LDD’s naming conventions: they don’t exist!  
It could be a move toward TLG/LDD’s categorization but
1. it’s not the intent, it could only be coincidental,
2. as seen in LDD, it’s rather simple (TLG uses more categories but LDD merges
a lot of them in its UI), so in the same way as a stick figure represents any
human and so any human can be recognized in the stick figure, any categorization
can look like LDD’s.
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Germany, Niedersachsen
United Kingdom, England
Netherlands, Utrecht
Australia, South Australia
France, Nouvelle-Aquitaine