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| | | Author: | Leftoverbricks  | | Posted: | Oct 24, 2020 10:48 | | Subject: | Old and new trans-clear parts: what to do? | | Viewed: | 162 times | | Topic: | Catalog | | Status: | Open | |
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| As some of you will know: TLG recently changed the plastic they were using to
mould trans-clear elements.
I remember having read some critical comments about this, perhaps on New Elementary
or on the Brickset Forum, but I can't remember exactly where.
Anyway: the new plastic material that is used by TLG today is far more prone
to scratching than the old plastic. The colour is also significant different.
I show this in picture below. The trans clear parts on the right side are from
sets that I purchased (and parted out for my shop) before 2019/2020. The parts
on the left side were purchased via the PAB wall in a LEGO shop, but they are
common in recent sets as well.
So my question is: what to do?
Suppose someone orders 8 1x2 transparent bricks from my shop and I send him/her
4x a brick from the left side of my picture and 4x a brick from the right side?
I don't think the customer will be happy!
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| | | | | Author: | Ninepartsred | | Posted: | Oct 24, 2020 11:08 | | Subject: | Re: Old and new trans-clear parts: what to do? | | Viewed: | 64 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog, Leftoverbricks writes:
| | As some of you will know: TLG recently changed the plastic they were using to
mould trans-clear elements.
I remember having read some critical comments about this, perhaps on New Elementary
or on the Brickset Forum, but I can't remember exactly where.
Anyway: the new plastic material that is used by TLG today is far more prone
to scratching than the old plastic. The colour is also significant different.
I show this in picture below. The trans clear parts on the right side are from
sets that I purchased (and parted out for my shop) before 2019/2020. The parts
on the left side were purchased via the PAB wall in a LEGO shop, but they are
common in recent sets as well.
So my question is: what to do?
Suppose someone orders 8 1x2 transparent bricks from my shop and I send him/her
4x a brick from the left side of my picture and 4x a brick from the right side?
I don't think the customer will be happy!
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I agree. I also wouldn't be happy to receive an order made up of only the
new parts. If you hadn't brought it up, I would have thought they were vintage.
If I were to list them, I would make separate entries and put a note in the comments
although I think it might put off buyers.
I'm seeing a lot more variation in colour and quality these days. Some new
white parts look yellowed and some don't match with other parts of the same
colour. I've even had different shades in the same sealed set.
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| | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Oct 24, 2020 12:28 | | Subject: | Re: Old and new trans-clear parts: what to do? | | Viewed: | 64 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog, Ninepartsred writes:
| | […]
I'm seeing a lot more variation in colour and quality these days. Some new
white parts look yellowed and some don't match with other parts of the same
colour. I've even had different shades in the same sealed set.
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You can read the article linked there: https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1223780
It’s too bad the online AFOL day live from LEGO House was only live and
not recorded.
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| | | | | Author: | Leftoverbricks | | Posted: | Oct 25, 2020 13:30 | | Subject: | Re: Old and new trans-clear parts: what to do? | | Viewed: | 52 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| I'm surprised that my post didn't receive more reactions. So I'm
bumping this.
Sellers? Catalog admins?
Greetings, Martin
In Catalog, Leftoverbricks writes:
| | As some of you will know: TLG recently changed the plastic they were using to
mould trans-clear elements.
I remember having read some critical comments about this, perhaps on New Elementary
or on the Brickset Forum, but I can't remember exactly where.
Anyway: the new plastic material that is used by TLG today is far more prone
to scratching than the old plastic. The colour is also significant different.
I show this in picture below. The trans clear parts on the right side are from
sets that I purchased (and parted out for my shop) before 2019/2020. The parts
on the left side were purchased via the PAB wall in a LEGO shop, but they are
common in recent sets as well.
So my question is: what to do?
Suppose someone orders 8 1x2 transparent bricks from my shop and I send him/her
4x a brick from the left side of my picture and 4x a brick from the right side?
I don't think the customer will be happy!
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| | | | | | | Author: | Leftoverbricks | | Posted: | Oct 25, 2020 13:31 | | Subject: | Re: Old and new trans-clear parts: what to do? | | Viewed: | 40 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| | Again the picture. |
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| | | | | | | Author: | randyf | | Posted: | Oct 25, 2020 18:50 | | Subject: | Re: Old and new trans-clear parts: what to do? | | Viewed: | 51 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog, Leftoverbricks writes:
| | I'm surprised that my post didn't receive more reactions. So I'm
bumping this.
Sellers? Catalog admins?
Greetings, Martin
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If you are concerned, separate them in your store with notes on each one. Other
sellers do the same thing with the varying shades of Pearl Gold or Trans-Orange,
so why would this be any different?
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | Leftoverbricks | | Posted: | Oct 26, 2020 00:52 | | Subject: | Re: Old and new trans-clear parts: what to do? | | Viewed: | 55 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog, randyf writes:
| | In Catalog, Leftoverbricks writes:
| | I'm surprised that my post didn't receive more reactions. So I'm
bumping this.
Sellers? Catalog admins?
Greetings, Martin
|
If you are concerned, separate them in your store with notes on each one. Other
sellers do the same thing with the varying shades of Pearl Gold or Trans-Orange,
so why would this be any different?
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I'ld like some guidance from the catalog admins here. How to describe the
other type of plastic and reduced opacity?
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | StormChaser | | Posted: | Oct 26, 2020 02:36 | | Subject: | Re: Old and new trans-clear parts: what to do? | | Viewed: | 66 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog, Leftoverbricks writes:
| | I'ld like some guidance from the catalog admins here. How to describe the
other type of plastic and reduced opacity?
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I'm honestly not entirely sure we can guide you on this issue.
Yes, I would probably be dissatisfied as a buyer if I got the yellowed parts
in your picture. But there are a number of existing colors that vary, some rather
significantly (dark red, pearl gold, etc.). TLG is fairly careful about certain
aspects of their products, but color definitely ain't one of them.
I think the best thing you could do in this situation is include a note in your
item-for-sale listings briefly describing the differences in appearance. Or,
what might be better: list them separately.
I don't think there's anything we can do as CAs to resolve this issue.
It would be highly impractical to add new colors to our palette to account for
unintentional quality variations.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Oct 26, 2020 08:46 | | Subject: | Re: Old and new trans-clear parts: what to do? | | Viewed: | 43 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog, StormChaser writes:
| | […]
TLG is fairly careful about certain
aspects of their products, but color definitely ain't one of them.
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But they are.
You should really have watched Bjarke Schønwandt’s presentation during the online
AFOL day
live from LEGO House about his job at LEGO’s Consumer-Perceived Quality.
He explained how they tried to fit the colours into a perceived closeness and
how they had to make tiny compromises because of supply problems and how these
tiny changes resulted in bigger perceived differences.
Colours are complicated. Colour perception is even more complicated.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | peregrinator | | Posted: | Oct 26, 2020 09:30 | | Subject: | Re: Old and new trans-clear parts: what to do? | | Viewed: | 39 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog, StormChaser writes:
| | I don't think there's anything we can do as CAs to resolve this issue.
It would be highly impractical to add new colors to our palette to account for
unintentional quality variations.
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I think that is true, but I'm not sure that the quality variation is unintentional
in this case. From the linked interview, it seems intentional - they're even
using a different material than before.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Oct 26, 2020 09:42 | | Subject: | Re: Old and new trans-clear parts: what to do? | | Viewed: | 41 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog, peregrinator writes:
| | In Catalog, StormChaser writes:
| | I don't think there's anything we can do as CAs to resolve this issue.
It would be highly impractical to add new colors to our palette to account for
unintentional quality variations.
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I think that is true, but I'm not sure that the quality variation is unintentional
in this case. From the linked interview, it seems intentional - they're even
using a different material than before.
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It’s not intentional for two reasons:
1. They know/realize the colour is different. They didn’t want
to make it different. On the contrary, they try to make the colour the same.
2. For all purposes, LEGO treats them as the same colour.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | peregrinator | | Posted: | Oct 26, 2020 10:40 | | Subject: | Re: Old and new trans-clear parts: what to do? | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog, SylvainLS writes:
| | It’s not intentional for two reasons:
1. They know/realize the colour is different. They didn’t want
to make it different. On the contrary, they try to make the colour the same.
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I'm sure they didn't set out to make the color different, but once they
realized that the color was different and continued with the process anyway,
surely one can say that that was intentional.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Oct 26, 2020 10:51 | | Subject: | Re: Old and new trans-clear parts: what to do? | | Viewed: | 41 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog, peregrinator writes:
| | In Catalog, SylvainLS writes:
| | It’s not intentional for two reasons:
1. They know/realize the colour is different. They didn’t want
to make it different. On the contrary, they try to make the colour the same.
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I'm sure they didn't set out to make the color different, but once they
realized that the color was different and continued with the process anyway,
surely one can say that that was intentional.
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Hmm, seems we (or French and English) have a different definition for intentional.
French “intentionnel” always means “planned.” Therefore, acceptance after the
fact doesn’t qualify as intentional to me.
Anyway, there’s still the second point: LEGO uses the same colour name / still
considers them the same colour.
BL could make a new colour to differentiate the two shades but that will be difficult
to enforce (and confusing).
We risk having many Alternates. The inventories that are pre-filled with LEGO’s
data will need to be checked more thoroughly for yet another variant.
And then it’s also an open door to differentiate all the shades of all the inconsistent
colours.
Pros and cons have to be weighted carefully.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Leftoverbricks | | Posted: | Oct 26, 2020 12:15 | | Subject: | Re: Old and new trans-clear parts: what to do? | | Viewed: | 55 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| |
Anyway, there’s still the second point: LEGO uses the same colour name / still
considers them the same colour.
BL could make a new colour to differentiate the two shades but that will be difficult
to enforce (and confusing).
We risk having many Alternates. The inventories that are pre-filled with LEGO’s
data will need to be checked more thoroughly for yet another variant.
And then it’s also an open door to differentiate all the shades of all the inconsistent
colours.
Pros and cons have to be weighted carefully.
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Good point. On Brick Owl there's a pre defined setting for sellers where
they can select if they differentiate between particular part variants (see pic).
It would be nice if there was a similar ~ and mandatory ~ check for all shops
here on BL. Default should be set to 'No'. Same could be done about very
obvious colour variants.
Pearl Gold and trans-clear being the first candidates.
There's a lot to say about this. Look forward to read your thoughts.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Leftoverbricks | | Posted: | Oct 26, 2020 11:52 | | Subject: | Re: Old and new trans-clear parts: what to do? | | Viewed: | 49 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog, StormChaser writes:
| | In Catalog, Leftoverbricks writes:
| | I'ld like some guidance from the catalog admins here. How to describe the
other type of plastic and reduced opacity?
|
I'm honestly not entirely sure we can guide you on this issue.
Yes, I would probably be dissatisfied as a buyer if I got the yellowed parts
in your picture. But there are a number of existing colors that vary, some rather
significantly (dark red, pearl gold, etc.). TLG is fairly careful about certain
aspects of their products, but color definitely ain't one of them.
I think the best thing you could do in this situation is include a note in your
item-for-sale listings briefly describing the differences in appearance. Or,
what might be better: list them separately.
I don't think there's anything we can do as CAs to resolve this issue.
It would be highly impractical to add new colors to our palette to account for
unintentional quality variations.
|
Agree with your last sentence.
Making a note in the description (same what Randy suggested) sounds like a way
to tackle this problem but in practice it's hardly doable. When I add items
(part out sets) to my inventory the lots are merged. I already have over 5500
lots.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | papluh | | Posted: | Dec 24, 2020 00:44 | | Subject: | Re: Old and new trans-clear parts: what to do? | | Viewed: | 49 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog, StormChaser writes:
| | I don't think there's anything we can do as CAs to resolve this issue.
It would be highly impractical to add new colors to our palette to account for
unintentional quality variations.
|
it is not just color, it is a new material being used - the old one was polycarbonate.
The new one is marked on the shipping stickers from LEGO as "Material: MABS LH"
MABS is the so called clear/transparent ABS, which makes it closer to the other
parts (from dyed ABS) than when polycarbonate was used.
This results not only in changes in color, but also other characteristics like
clutch power.
I can only guess that in future it will be easier to migrate materials from same
plastics family to alternative/sustainable sources than to have to invest in
2 different ones.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | randyf | | Posted: | Dec 24, 2020 01:09 | | Subject: | Re: Old and new trans-clear parts: what to do? | | Viewed: | 49 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog, papluh writes:
| | In Catalog, StormChaser writes:
| | I don't think there's anything we can do as CAs to resolve this issue.
It would be highly impractical to add new colors to our palette to account for
unintentional quality variations.
|
it is not just color, it is a new material being used - the old one was polycarbonate.
The new one is marked on the shipping stickers from LEGO as "Material: MABS LH"
MABS is the so called clear/transparent ABS, which makes it closer to the other
parts (from dyed ABS) than when polycarbonate was used.
This results not only in changes in color, but also other characteristics like
clutch power.
I can only guess that in future it will be easier to migrate materials from same
plastics family to alternative/sustainable sources than to have to invest in
2 different ones.
|
For those that want more information on MABS (which I had not yet heard of):
http://polymerdatabase.com/Polymer%20Brands/MABS.html
Now I know why all the transparent parts in the last year and a half have all
received updated Element Numbers at LEGO (known as Part Color Codes here). They
switched to a new material which meant that new molds needed to be created to
process it compared to polycarbonate.
Cheers,
Randy
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Dec 24, 2020 03:32 | | Subject: | Re: Old and new trans-clear parts: what to do? | | Viewed: | 39 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog, randyf writes:
| | […]
For those that want more information on MABS (which I had not yet heard of):
http://polymerdatabase.com/Polymer%20Brands/MABS.html
Now I know why all the transparent parts in the last year and a half have all
received updated Element Numbers at LEGO (known as Part Color Codes here). They
switched to a new material which meant that new molds needed to be created to
process it compared to polycarbonate.
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Yes, and the “cloudy” aspect of these parts some have noticed.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | randyf | | Posted: | Dec 24, 2020 03:44 | | Subject: | Re: Old and new trans-clear parts: what to do? | | Viewed: | 47 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Catalog, randyf writes:
| | […]
For those that want more information on MABS (which I had not yet heard of):
http://polymerdatabase.com/Polymer%20Brands/MABS.html
Now I know why all the transparent parts in the last year and a half have all
received updated Element Numbers at LEGO (known as Part Color Codes here). They
switched to a new material which meant that new molds needed to be created to
process it compared to polycarbonate.
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Yes, and the “cloudy” aspect of these parts some have noticed.
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I read that this material is able to create some interesting visual effects,
such as pearlescent colors. Switching to this new material may be why LEGO were
also able to introduce the new opal colors (which BrickLink is currently calling
the "Satin Colors").
https://www.bricklink.com/catalogColors.asp?v=1&itemType=P
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | cosmicray | | Posted: | Oct 26, 2020 10:53 | | Subject: | Re: Old and new trans-clear parts: what to do? | | Viewed: | 39 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog, Leftoverbricks writes:
| | I'ld like some guidance from the catalog admins here. How to describe the
other type of plastic and reduced opacity?
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Yellowish-Trans-Clear ?
New-and-not_so_improved-Trans-Clear ?
I doubt it would ever become official, and unless there is a stink like there
was with the grey vs bley wars, I doubt much will come of it. Is the new shade
deliberate (as it was when gray became bley) or an unfortunate side effect?
Nita Rae
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Netherlands, Overijssel
United Kingdom, England
France, Nouvelle-Aquitaine
USA, Ohio
Slovakia, Bratislavský Kraj
