Discussion Forum: Thread 268357

 Author: Admin_Russell View Messages Posted By Admin_Russell
 Posted: May 21, 2020 04:27
 Subject: Changes to Order Status (Revised May 20)
 Viewed: 215 times
 Topic: Administrative
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Admin_Russell

Location:  USA, California
Member Since Contact Type Status
May 9, 2017 Contact Member Admin
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
BrickLink Administrator
Dear BrickLink members,

As a follow-up to these two recent posts:

https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1193667

https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1197156

…we have extensively revised the XP implementation as it relates to order status
issues. Many of our users have asked why it was necessary in the first place
to make adjustments to the order status options.

The answer is that XP is focused on the buyer experience, and currently on BrickLink
it is a very “non-standard” experience which varies from store to store. Most
new buyers are rather oblivious to order status changes on BrickLink Classic,
but the idea was to provide a new standard that engaged buyers to a greater degree
and provided a user experience flow similar to what people have come to expect
in today’s ecommerce environment.

However, the XP “experience” is not completely dependent on order status settings,
so we have been able to roll back / revise some of the changes which have caused
problems for our sellers.

Below is a revision of the info I shared with you on April 29. I have written
some notes below each paragraph that I trust you will find helpful:


1. Order Status changes are now subject to more restrictions. Whenever
possible, though, sellers are given the freedom to change order status as best
suits their workflow.

We have since relaxed many of these restrictions, especially for orders using
an offsite payment method.



2. Order completion

a. When a seller sets an order as completed, it becomes "Awaiting completion"
status and it won't be finalized until it gets purged or confirmed by the
buyer on XP. It shows as Completed on BrickLink Classic.

b. When a buyer sets an order as Completed, it becomes "Finalizing completion"
status and it will be finalized after 1 week of setting the status. The seller
no longer has the option of changing the status once the buyer has marked an
order as Completed.

Sellers are still no longer able to change the Order Status once the buyer
has set it to Completed, but we are only allowing buyers to change to Received
/ Completed after the order has been marked Shipped by the seller.

This is a slight disadvantage to buyers, because they are dependent on the seller
marking as Shipped (which not all sellers do) to complete the order. But the
problem of buyers inadvertently setting to Completed at an early stage of the
order proved to be a far greater nuisance to both buyers and sellers.

By the way, there was a bug where the system would automatically set an order
to Completed when payment was confirmed by the buyer. This has now been fixed,
but for a while it clouded this issue with unintended behavior.



3. NPB

a. The NPB fileable date is now 5 days after the most recent invoice date, not
counting reminder invoices. A “reminder invoice” according to the system is one
where the order total matches that of the previous invoice.

Previously, the NPB fileable date clock started on the order date. This was
open to abuse by sellers who issued, for example, an invoice on the sixth day
and then filed an NPB on the following day.

Additionally, we have for years had complaints from sellers about how long the
NPB process takes. Part of the reason this was never reduced was because of the
necessary time for Admin to review every alert case.

However, in this situation we have considered that on average the Admin oversight
time will remain the same, given that many invoices are sent after 2 or 3 days.
And for sellers who invoice immediately / same day, they will in effect have
to wait 2 days less to complete the NPB and get their inventory relisted.


b. An NPB is only fileable in Pending, Processing, Updated, Ready, Packed (and
not paid) status.

This prevents sellers from filing an NBP as the result of a chargeback.


4. NSS

a. The NSS fileable date is now based on either the most recent order date, the
most recent payment date, or the most recent invoice date.

The NSS fileable date used to be based on the order date alone, but the clock
really shouldn’t start until payment is made. However, in cases where the invoice
or payment is handled offsite, the order date will still be used.


b. An NSS is fileable in Pending, Processing, Updated, Ready, Paid, Packed (and
paid), Shipped, Received, Awaiting completion, Finalizing completion status.

We had originally restricted NSS filings when the order status was “Paid+”
(meaning Paid plus all stages after Paid). However, to prevent abuse from sellers
we have reverted back to allowing an NSS regardless of Order Status, with the
exception of Completed/Finalized by the buyer.



5. OCR and Order Cancellation

a. If an OCR is filed in “received with issue” status, the order can be canceled
after the buyer accepts the OCR.

This change didn't seem to ruffle any feathers.

b. When seller finds missing items in an order,

i. Before payment: File OIRR.

We realize that not every seller uses OIRR to handle missing items, but it
is still the officially recommended way to handle these problems.


ii. After payment: Handle independently with buyer.

We have completely changed our stance on this issue since the original release,
and in the near future we will add a “refund note” feature for sellers to keep
track of refunds.


c. When a seller needs to cancel an entire order after payment, do a full refund,
change the Order Status to Packed, and then proceed to complete an OCR.

Not much has changed about this process, but it will come under the scope
of the “refund feature” mentioned above.



6. Removing OCR/NSS/NRS/NPB

a. Removing OCR/NSS/NRS now sets the Order Status back to the previous Order
Status.

Previously, such orders were reset to Pending. We felt this was an improvement
since the previous order status would be more meaningful. However, when Admin
cancels one of the above alerts, it will still be set back to Pending.


b. Removing NPB/NPX now sets the Order Status back to Ready.

This is to prepare the order to enter Paid status. Again, when Admin cancels
an alert, it will still be set back to Pending. This prevents the alert from
sticking on the user’s account if the order is later canceled.



7. Invoices

a. Sending an invoice will produce a checkmark icon.

This has been reverted to the way it was originally.

b. Sellers can send an invoice independent of order status

This has also been reverted to the way it was originally. And sending an invoice
will not automatically change the Order Status.


c. When an order is marked paid, further changes to the order prices are blocked.

We had requests to revert this behavior as well, but we feel allowing such
changes is going to cause internal bookkeeping problems for us in the future.
We’d like to assist our users in overcoming any issues this change has caused.



8. Problem Order Item

a. A pending OIRR now expires after 7 days of filing.

It doesn’t make sense to keep these requests floating around in the system
any longer than a week. They can always be refiled if necessary.



Key:

NPB = Non-Paying Buyer Alert
NPX = Non-Paying Buyer Accepted Penalty
NSS = Non-Shipping Seller Alert
NRS = Non-Responding Seller Alert
OCR = Order Cancellation Request
OIRR = Order Item Removal Request
 Author: StarBrick View Messages Posted By StarBrick
 Posted: May 21, 2020 07:32
 Subject: Re: Changes to Order Status (Revised May 20)
 Viewed: 36 times
 Topic: Administrative
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StarBrick (5466)

Location:  Netherlands, Gelderland
Member Since Contact Type Status
Oct 18, 2008 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: StarBrick's BrickShop
Thanks Russell for the update of the changes in the order statusses.
Already saw some changea appear, now I know why
 Author: iprice View Messages Posted By iprice
 Posted: May 21, 2020 10:58
 Subject: Re: Changes to Order Status (Revised May 20)
 Viewed: 33 times
 Topic: Administrative
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iprice (523)

Location:  United Kingdom, England
Member Since Contact Type Status
Apr 15, 2018 Contact Member Buyer
Buying Privileges - OK
In Administrative, Admin_Russell writes:
  Dear BrickLink members,

As a follow-up to these two recent posts:

https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1193667

https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1197156

…we have extensively revised the XP implementation as it relates to order status
issues. Many of our users have asked why it was necessary in the first place
to make adjustments to the order status options.

The answer is that XP is focused on the buyer experience, and currently on BrickLink
it is a very “non-standard” experience which varies from store to store. Most
new buyers are rather oblivious to order status changes on BrickLink Classic,
but the idea was to provide a new standard that engaged buyers to a greater degree
and provided a user experience flow similar to what people have come to expect
in today’s ecommerce environment.

However, the XP “experience” is not completely dependent on order status settings,
so we have been able to roll back / revise some of the changes which have caused
problems for our sellers.

Below is a revision of the info I shared with you on April 29. I have written
some notes below each paragraph that I trust you will find helpful:


1. Order Status changes are now subject to more restrictions. Whenever
possible, though, sellers are given the freedom to change order status as best
suits their workflow.

We have since relaxed many of these restrictions, especially for orders using
an offsite payment method.



2. Order completion

a. When a seller sets an order as completed, it becomes "Awaiting completion"
status and it won't be finalized until it gets purged or confirmed by the
buyer on XP. It shows as Completed on BrickLink Classic.

b. When a buyer sets an order as Completed, it becomes "Finalizing completion"
status and it will be finalized after 1 week of setting the status. The seller
no longer has the option of changing the status once the buyer has marked an
order as Completed.

Sellers are still no longer able to change the Order Status once the buyer
has set it to Completed, but we are only allowing buyers to change to Received
/ Completed after the order has been marked Shipped by the seller.

This is a slight disadvantage to buyers, because they are dependent on the seller
marking as Shipped (which not all sellers do) to complete the order. But the
problem of buyers inadvertently setting to Completed at an early stage of the
order proved to be a far greater nuisance to both buyers and sellers.

By the way, there was a bug where the system would automatically set an order
to Completed when payment was confirmed by the buyer. This has now been fixed,
but for a while it clouded this issue with unintended behavior.



3. NPB

a. The NPB fileable date is now 5 days after the most recent invoice date, not
counting reminder invoices. A “reminder invoice” according to the system is one
where the order total matches that of the previous invoice.

Previously, the NPB fileable date clock started on the order date. This was
open to abuse by sellers who issued, for example, an invoice on the sixth day
and then filed an NPB on the following day.

Additionally, we have for years had complaints from sellers about how long the
NPB process takes. Part of the reason this was never reduced was because of the
necessary time for Admin to review every alert case.

However, in this situation we have considered that on average the Admin oversight
time will remain the same, given that many invoices are sent after 2 or 3 days.
And for sellers who invoice immediately / same day, they will in effect have
to wait 2 days less to complete the NPB and get their inventory relisted.


b. An NPB is only fileable in Pending, Processing, Updated, Ready, Packed (and
not paid) status.

This prevents sellers from filing an NBP as the result of a chargeback.


4. NSS

a. The NSS fileable date is now based on either the most recent order date, the
most recent payment date, or the most recent invoice date.

The NSS fileable date used to be based on the order date alone, but the clock
really shouldn’t start until payment is made. However, in cases where the invoice
or payment is handled offsite, the order date will still be used.


b. An NSS is fileable in Pending, Processing, Updated, Ready, Paid, Packed (and
paid), Shipped, Received, Awaiting completion, Finalizing completion status.

We had originally restricted NSS filings when the order status was “Paid+”
(meaning Paid plus all stages after Paid). However, to prevent abuse from sellers
we have reverted back to allowing an NSS regardless of Order Status, with the
exception of Completed/Finalized by the buyer.



5. OCR and Order Cancellation

a. If an OCR is filed in “received with issue” status, the order can be canceled
after the buyer accepts the OCR.

This change didn't seem to ruffle any feathers.

b. When seller finds missing items in an order,

i. Before payment: File OIRR.

We realize that not every seller uses OIRR to handle missing items, but it
is still the officially recommended way to handle these problems.


ii. After payment: Handle independently with buyer.

We have completely changed our stance on this issue since the original release,
and in the near future we will add a “refund note” feature for sellers to keep
track of refunds.


c. When a seller needs to cancel an entire order after payment, do a full refund,
change the Order Status to Packed, and then proceed to complete an OCR.

Not much has changed about this process, but it will come under the scope
of the “refund feature” mentioned above.



6. Removing OCR/NSS/NRS/NPB

a. Removing OCR/NSS/NRS now sets the Order Status back to the previous Order
Status.

Previously, such orders were reset to Pending. We felt this was an improvement
since the previous order status would be more meaningful. However, when Admin
cancels one of the above alerts, it will still be set back to Pending.


b. Removing NPB/NPX now sets the Order Status back to Ready.

This is to prepare the order to enter Paid status. Again, when Admin cancels
an alert, it will still be set back to Pending. This prevents the alert from
sticking on the user’s account if the order is later canceled.



7. Invoices

a. Sending an invoice will produce a checkmark icon.

This has been reverted to the way it was originally.

b. Sellers can send an invoice independent of order status

This has also been reverted to the way it was originally. And sending an invoice
will not automatically change the Order Status.


c. When an order is marked paid, further changes to the order prices are blocked.

We had requests to revert this behavior as well, but we feel allowing such
changes is going to cause internal bookkeeping problems for us in the future.
We’d like to assist our users in overcoming any issues this change has caused.



8. Problem Order Item

a. A pending OIRR now expires after 7 days of filing.

It doesn’t make sense to keep these requests floating around in the system
any longer than a week. They can always be refiled if necessary.



Key:

NPB = Non-Paying Buyer Alert
NPX = Non-Paying Buyer Accepted Penalty
NSS = Non-Shipping Seller Alert
NRS = Non-Responding Seller Alert
OCR = Order Cancellation Request
OIRR = Order Item Removal Request



WTF?

I had an ongoing NSS that has not been resolved and now it's been set back
to normal (pending) with no ability to restart NSS. What's the point in a
system, designed to protect the buyer, that doesn't actually protect the
buyer?
 Author: masterbuilder1 View Messages Posted By masterbuilder1
 Posted: May 21, 2020 13:43
 Subject: Re: Changes to Order Status (Revised May 20)
 Viewed: 41 times
 Topic: Administrative
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masterbuilder1 (32425)

Location:  United Kingdom, England
Member Since Contact Type Status
Sep 12, 2000 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: a brick or more
An NPB is only fileable in Pending, Processing, Updated, Ready, Packed (and
  
  not paid) status.

This prevents sellers from filing an NBP as the result of a chargeback.

I understand the thought process behind this, but what are we meant to do to
warn/protect sellers if buyers are repeatedly filing chargebacks? I had a buyer
recently who filed a chargeback with Stripe. I had GBP169 taken out of my account
and a GBP15 fee too. I knew the item had arrived, buyer had sent varying inconstant
messages to me, claimed to Stripe their card had been used fraudulently. Stripe
believe them, till the seller disproves what they are saying.

I sent the e-mail chain the stripe, which proved the buyer had bought it, it
had been shipped to their address, they had received it, they kept changing their
story. The issuing bank investigated, agreed with me that the card had not been
used fraudulently and gave me back the money. When I looked at the buyers feedback
they had done the same on many occasions, but had not been blocked as BL registered
their payment and after I had proved they had tried to fraudulently keep the
Lego and the money I could leave a negative feedback (hence why I do not leave
feedback on payment), but had no way of drawing the attention to admin. The time
involved in sorting this was significant. What system is in place to block buyers
who do this? I understand NPB is inaccurate, but they buyer did the same so many
times, not all sellers would have the experience and time to follow this through
and surely as sellers we should have a way of being protected from the few buyers
who do this?

Alison
  buyer?
 Author: Admin_Russell View Messages Posted By Admin_Russell
 Posted: May 21, 2020 16:59
 Subject: Re: Changes to Order Status (Revised May 20)
 Viewed: 78 times
 Topic: Administrative
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Admin_Russell

Location:  USA, California
Member Since Contact Type Status
May 9, 2017 Contact Member Admin
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
BrickLink Administrator
In Administrative, iprice writes:

  I had an ongoing NSS that has not been resolved and now it's been set back
to normal (pending) with no ability to restart NSS. What's the point in a
system, designed to protect the buyer, that doesn't actually protect the
buyer?

Your issue is not related to the recent changes we made to the Order Status settings.
The NSS was removed manually by Admin in accordance with site polices.
 Author: Stellar View Messages Posted By Stellar
 Posted: May 21, 2020 12:52
 Subject: Re: Changes to Order Status (Revised May 20)
 Viewed: 34 times
 Topic: Administrative
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Stellar (1359)

Location:  Spain, Comunidad Valenciana
Member Since Contact Type Status
Sep 24, 2015 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: Stellar Bricks
In Administrative, Admin_Russell writes:
  Dear BrickLink members,

As a follow-up to these two recent posts:

https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1193667

https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1197156

…we have extensively revised the XP implementation as it relates to order status
issues. Many of our users have asked why it was necessary in the first place
to make adjustments to the order status options.

The answer is that XP is focused on the buyer experience, and currently on BrickLink
it is a very “non-standard” experience which varies from store to store. Most
new buyers are rather oblivious to order status changes on BrickLink Classic,
but the idea was to provide a new standard that engaged buyers to a greater degree
and provided a user experience flow similar to what people have come to expect
in today’s ecommerce environment.

However, the XP “experience” is not completely dependent on order status settings,
so we have been able to roll back / revise some of the changes which have caused
problems for our sellers.

Below is a revision of the info I shared with you on April 29. I have written
some notes below each paragraph that I trust you will find helpful:


1. Order Status changes are now subject to more restrictions. Whenever
possible, though, sellers are given the freedom to change order status as best
suits their workflow.

We have since relaxed many of these restrictions, especially for orders using
an offsite payment method.



2. Order completion

a. When a seller sets an order as completed, it becomes "Awaiting completion"
status and it won't be finalized until it gets purged or confirmed by the
buyer on XP. It shows as Completed on BrickLink Classic.

b. When a buyer sets an order as Completed, it becomes "Finalizing completion"
status and it will be finalized after 1 week of setting the status. The seller
no longer has the option of changing the status once the buyer has marked an
order as Completed.

Sellers are still no longer able to change the Order Status once the buyer
has set it to Completed, but we are only allowing buyers to change to Received
/ Completed after the order has been marked Shipped by the seller.

This is a slight disadvantage to buyers, because they are dependent on the seller
marking as Shipped (which not all sellers do) to complete the order. But the
problem of buyers inadvertently setting to Completed at an early stage of the
order proved to be a far greater nuisance to both buyers and sellers.

By the way, there was a bug where the system would automatically set an order
to Completed when payment was confirmed by the buyer. This has now been fixed,
but for a while it clouded this issue with unintended behavior.



3. NPB

a. The NPB fileable date is now 5 days after the most recent invoice date, not
counting reminder invoices. A “reminder invoice” according to the system is one
where the order total matches that of the previous invoice.

Previously, the NPB fileable date clock started on the order date. This was
open to abuse by sellers who issued, for example, an invoice on the sixth day
and then filed an NPB on the following day.

Additionally, we have for years had complaints from sellers about how long the
NPB process takes. Part of the reason this was never reduced was because of the
necessary time for Admin to review every alert case.

However, in this situation we have considered that on average the Admin oversight
time will remain the same, given that many invoices are sent after 2 or 3 days.
And for sellers who invoice immediately / same day, they will in effect have
to wait 2 days less to complete the NPB and get their inventory relisted.


b. An NPB is only fileable in Pending, Processing, Updated, Ready, Packed (and
not paid) status.

This prevents sellers from filing an NBP as the result of a chargeback.


4. NSS

a. The NSS fileable date is now based on either the most recent order date, the
most recent payment date, or the most recent invoice date.

The NSS fileable date used to be based on the order date alone, but the clock
really shouldn’t start until payment is made. However, in cases where the invoice
or payment is handled offsite, the order date will still be used.


b. An NSS is fileable in Pending, Processing, Updated, Ready, Paid, Packed (and
paid), Shipped, Received, Awaiting completion, Finalizing completion status.

We had originally restricted NSS filings when the order status was “Paid+”
(meaning Paid plus all stages after Paid). However, to prevent abuse from sellers
we have reverted back to allowing an NSS regardless of Order Status, with the
exception of Completed/Finalized by the buyer.



5. OCR and Order Cancellation

a. If an OCR is filed in “received with issue” status, the order can be canceled
after the buyer accepts the OCR.

This change didn't seem to ruffle any feathers.

b. When seller finds missing items in an order,

i. Before payment: File OIRR.

We realize that not every seller uses OIRR to handle missing items, but it
is still the officially recommended way to handle these problems.


ii. After payment: Handle independently with buyer.

We have completely changed our stance on this issue since the original release,
and in the near future we will add a “refund note” feature for sellers to keep
track of refunds.


c. When a seller needs to cancel an entire order after payment, do a full refund,
change the Order Status to Packed, and then proceed to complete an OCR.

Not much has changed about this process, but it will come under the scope
of the “refund feature” mentioned above.



6. Removing OCR/NSS/NRS/NPB

a. Removing OCR/NSS/NRS now sets the Order Status back to the previous Order
Status.

Previously, such orders were reset to Pending. We felt this was an improvement
since the previous order status would be more meaningful. However, when Admin
cancels one of the above alerts, it will still be set back to Pending.


b. Removing NPB/NPX now sets the Order Status back to Ready.

This is to prepare the order to enter Paid status. Again, when Admin cancels
an alert, it will still be set back to Pending. This prevents the alert from
sticking on the user’s account if the order is later canceled.



7. Invoices

a. Sending an invoice will produce a checkmark icon.

This has been reverted to the way it was originally.

b. Sellers can send an invoice independent of order status

This has also been reverted to the way it was originally. And sending an invoice
will not automatically change the Order Status.


c. When an order is marked paid, further changes to the order prices are blocked.

We had requests to revert this behavior as well, but we feel allowing such
changes is going to cause internal bookkeeping problems for us in the future.
We’d like to assist our users in overcoming any issues this change has caused.



8. Problem Order Item

a. A pending OIRR now expires after 7 days of filing.

It doesn’t make sense to keep these requests floating around in the system
any longer than a week. They can always be refiled if necessary.



Key:

NPB = Non-Paying Buyer Alert
NPX = Non-Paying Buyer Accepted Penalty
NSS = Non-Shipping Seller Alert
NRS = Non-Responding Seller Alert
OCR = Order Cancellation Request
OIRR = Order Item Removal Request

Thanks for the long explanation.