Discussion Forum: Thread 255751

 Author: Teup View Messages Posted By Teup
 Posted: Aug 5, 2019 10:28
 Subject: Massive PayPal fee increase 21 october
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 Topic: Selling
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Teup (4252)

Location:  Netherlands, Utrecht
Member Since Contact Type Status
May 6, 2004 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: The T-workshop
Just got a message from PayPal they're updating their terms.

Not sure how it turns out for other countries, but here there's going to
be a fee increase of a whopping 38% of the variable cost on transactions from
the NL to most of the rest of the world. It's going from 3.9% to 5.4%. That's
pretty huge.For me that's a lot of money per month, for no extra service.

I'm glad I'll soon have my own webshop with a better payment option that
Bricklink with its empty cockpit is never going to implement..
 Author: StarBrick View Messages Posted By StarBrick
 Posted: Aug 5, 2019 14:56
 Subject: Re: Massive PayPal fee increase 21 october
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StarBrick (5258)

Location:  Netherlands, Gelderland
Member Since Contact Type Status
Oct 18, 2008 Contact Member Seller
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Store: StarBrick's BrickShop
In Selling, Teup writes:
  
I'm glad I'll soon have my own webshop with a better payment option that
Bricklink with its empty cockpit is never going to implement..

Gonna watch that!!
 Author: StarBrick View Messages Posted By StarBrick
 Posted: Aug 5, 2019 15:01
 Subject: Re: PayPal fee increase 21 october - currency fee?
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StarBrick (5258)

Location:  Netherlands, Gelderland
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Oct 18, 2008 Contact Member Seller
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Store: StarBrick's BrickShop
PP:

Opmerking: Internationale betalingen in euro of Zweedse kronen tussen rekeningen
die zijn geregistreerd in de Europese Unie of de Europese Economische Ruimte,
worden behandeld als betalingen voor binnenlandse commerciële transacties bij
het toepassen van kosten.

So Inter EEU payments are regarded as intern transactions.

The 21-10-2019 change effects the currency conversion, not the fees for transactions.
Ask your customers to pay in the right currency and there is no fee to be calculated
or am I missing something here?
 Author: Pippyblocks View Messages Posted By Pippyblocks
 Posted: Aug 5, 2019 15:04
 Subject: Re: Massive PayPal fee increase 21 october
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Pippyblocks (1450)

Location:  United Kingdom, England
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May 20, 2017 Contact Member Seller
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Store: Pippys Blocks
It's 3.4% plus 20p fixed here n the UK at the moment. Do you have a link
to that?

In Selling, Teup writes:
  Just got a message from PayPal they're updating their terms.

Not sure how it turns out for other countries, but here there's going to
be a fee increase of a whopping 38% of the variable cost on transactions from
the NL to most of the rest of the world. It's going from 3.9% to 5.4%. That's
pretty huge.For me that's a lot of money per month, for no extra service.

I'm glad I'll soon have my own webshop with a better payment option that
Bricklink with its empty cockpit is never going to implement..
 Author: Teup View Messages Posted By Teup
 Posted: Aug 5, 2019 16:01
 Subject: Re: Massive PayPal fee increase 21 october
 Viewed: 119 times
 Topic: Selling
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Teup (4252)

Location:  Netherlands, Utrecht
Member Since Contact Type Status
May 6, 2004 Contact Member Seller
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Store: The T-workshop
In Selling, Pippyblocks writes:
  It's 3.4% plus 20p fixed here n the UK at the moment. Do you have a link
to that?

In Selling, Teup writes:
  Just got a message from PayPal they're updating their terms.

Not sure how it turns out for other countries, but here there's going to
be a fee increase of a whopping 38% of the variable cost on transactions from
the NL to most of the rest of the world. It's going from 3.9% to 5.4%. That's
pretty huge.For me that's a lot of money per month, for no extra service.

I'm glad I'll soon have my own webshop with a better payment option that
Bricklink with its empty cockpit is never going to implement..

@Starbrick and Pippyblocks:

Here it is, in Dutch though, but in section two it lists the costs of receiving
commercial transactions:

https://www.paypal.com/nl/webapps/mpp/ua/upcoming-policies-full?locale.x=nl_NL&utm_source=epsilon&utm_campaign=A_EP_EMEALC_201908_19815_Legal_Updates_NL_6month_nl&utm_medium=email

These percentages (0.5% and 2%) are added on top of the default domestic rate
which is 3.4% here. So it means that for most countries the total becomes 5.4%.

Not a competitive rate at all if you ask me. If the profit on €20 turnover is
€10, that means that of every ten euros of profit, one spills over the bucket.
I wonder what planet PayPal is living on..

So this is the Dutch situation. For other countries, perhaps you can edit this
URL or find it somewhere on the PayPal website.
 Author: WhiteHorseMatt View Messages Posted By WhiteHorseMatt
 Posted: Sep 13, 2019 08:13
 Subject: Re: Massive PayPal fee increase 21 october
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WhiteHorseMatt (453)

Location:  United Kingdom, England
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Store: White Horse Bricks
In Selling, Pippyblocks writes:
  It's 3.4% plus 20p fixed here n the UK at the moment. Do you have a link
to that?

Hasn't this changed to 2.9% + 30p?
 Author: yorbrick View Messages Posted By yorbrick
 Posted: Sep 13, 2019 09:48
 Subject: Re: Massive PayPal fee increase 21 october
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yorbrick (703)

Location:  United Kingdom, England
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Store: Yorbricks
In Selling, WhiteHorseMatt writes:
  In Selling, Pippyblocks writes:
  It's 3.4% plus 20p fixed here n the UK at the moment. Do you have a link
to that?

Hasn't this changed to 2.9% + 30p?

They are both correct, depending on exactly how a buyer pays.

This is the difference between paypal checkout and website payments standard.
I think on instant checkout / onsite payments, we get the 2.9% + 30p rate.
 Author: runner.caller View Messages Posted By runner.caller
 Posted: Sep 13, 2019 10:10
 Subject: Re: Massive PayPal fee increase 21 october
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runner.caller (967)

Location:  USA, South Dakota
Member Since Contact Type Status
Jan 18, 2014 Contact Member Seller
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Store: A Minifig Galore Store
In Selling, yorbrick writes:
  In Selling, WhiteHorseMatt writes:
  In Selling, Pippyblocks writes:
  It's 3.4% plus 20p fixed here n the UK at the moment. Do you have a link
to that?

Hasn't this changed to 2.9% + 30p?

They are both correct, depending on exactly how a buyer pays.

This is the difference between paypal checkout and website payments standard.
I think on instant checkout / onsite payments, we get the 2.9% + 30p rate.

US to US transactions are 2.9% + $0.30USD.

That's annoying that UK has to pay 2.9% + 30p (it'd be like 2.9% + $0.37USD).

How's that fair for those across the pond to have to pay extra $0.07 converted
per transaction?
 Author: Teup View Messages Posted By Teup
 Posted: Sep 13, 2019 10:19
 Subject: Re: Massive PayPal fee increase 21 october
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 Topic: Selling
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Teup (4252)

Location:  Netherlands, Utrecht
Member Since Contact Type Status
May 6, 2004 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: The T-workshop
In Selling, runner.caller writes:
  In Selling, yorbrick writes:
  In Selling, WhiteHorseMatt writes:
  In Selling, Pippyblocks writes:
  It's 3.4% plus 20p fixed here n the UK at the moment. Do you have a link
to that?

Hasn't this changed to 2.9% + 30p?

They are both correct, depending on exactly how a buyer pays.

This is the difference between paypal checkout and website payments standard.
I think on instant checkout / onsite payments, we get the 2.9% + 30p rate.

US to US transactions are 2.9% + $0.30USD.

That's annoying that UK has to pay 2.9% + 30p (it'd be like 2.9% + $0.37USD).

How's that fair for those across the pond to have to pay extra $0.07 converted
per transaction?

3.4% + €0.35 for domestic transactions here. Transactions from the US are currently
3.9% or so, and will be 5.4% next month. It all seems just like completely
random numbers to me. I will give them a call soon because I'm curious what
motivates these increases..
 Author: axaday View Messages Posted By axaday
 Posted: Sep 13, 2019 10:22
 Subject: Re: Massive PayPal fee increase 21 october
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axaday (4020)

Location:  USA, Oklahoma
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Jun 28, 2005 Contact Member Seller
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Store: Axaday
In Selling, runner.caller writes:
  US to US transactions are 2.9% + $0.30USD.

That's annoying that UK has to pay 2.9% + 30p (it'd be like 2.9% + $0.37USD).

How's that fair for those across the pond to have to pay extra $0.07 converted
per transaction?

The solution would be difficult. Yes, a pence has been worth more than a penny
for a long time if not always. But they change every day. To make it FAIR,
they would have to change the fee structure on a regular basis. I wouldn't
want that noise.

The actual reason might be that credit cards in the UK charge PayPal more for
the transaction and they have to pass that on. If that is the case, it seems
perfectly fair.
 Author: Teup View Messages Posted By Teup
 Posted: Sep 13, 2019 10:31
 Subject: Re: Massive PayPal fee increase 21 october
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Teup (4252)

Location:  Netherlands, Utrecht
Member Since Contact Type Status
May 6, 2004 Contact Member Seller
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Store: The T-workshop
In Selling, axaday writes:
  In Selling, runner.caller writes:
  US to US transactions are 2.9% + $0.30USD.

That's annoying that UK has to pay 2.9% + 30p (it'd be like 2.9% + $0.37USD).

How's that fair for those across the pond to have to pay extra $0.07 converted
per transaction?

The solution would be difficult. Yes, a pence has been worth more than a penny
for a long time if not always. But they change every day. To make it FAIR,
they would have to change the fee structure on a regular basis. I wouldn't
want that noise.

The actual reason might be that credit cards in the UK charge PayPal more for
the transaction and they have to pass that on. If that is the case, it seems
perfectly fair.

I think these are just numbers made up by PayPal as part of their business model
and not related to what's "fair" for us.. it's supply and demand. Here
in the NL people very rarely have credit cards and drawing funds from a bank
account should be free, but still they ask 3,4%, so I guess the fees are not
based on their costs but rather on optimal profit for them.

It's happening now too with this food delivery platform. First they were
cheap and convinced a lot of consumers to use it, now that they're settled,
they're increasing their fees for restaurants (I think to some 10% of the
order value). Restaurants are very upset about it and going to court but guess
that's the way it is. They can only go and switch to alternative platforms,
that are popping up now because of the increase.
 Author: SylvainLS View Messages Posted By SylvainLS
 Posted: Sep 13, 2019 12:48
 Subject: Re: Massive PayPal fee increase 21 october
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SylvainLS (32)

Location:  France, Nouvelle-Aquitaine
Member Since Contact Type Status
Apr 25, 2014 Contact Member Buyer
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In Selling, Teup writes:
  […]
I think these are just numbers made up by PayPal as part of their business model
and not related to what's "fair" for us.. it's supply and demand. Here
in the NL people very rarely have credit cards and drawing funds from a bank
account should be free, but still they ask 3,4%, so I guess the fees are not
based on their costs but rather on optimal profit for them.

I don’t know why people still believe there’s some kind of “fairness” in pricing.
Or some kind of relation between cost and price (besides cost should be below
price ).

I like that fake ad from an old parodic radio show (and newspaper):
“Stainless corkscrew, 2,50 francs.
The same but more expensive, 3,50 francs.”

That seems ludicrous but it works.
Now, I don’t know if that works with Lego parts (though some sellers do that:
same lots but different prices), but I know for sure it works for a lot of things:
a “deluxe” version that’s exactly the same as the “normal” one except for the
prices, and both sell.
Why not sell higher if there are people who are willing to buy higher?

PayPal can increase their fees as long as there are still people who use their
services.
They just need to adjust the increase to the decrease in customers, decrease
which might not even happen because they are stuck with PP.


  It's happening now too with this food delivery platform. First they were
cheap and convinced a lot of consumers to use it, now that they're settled,
they're increasing their fees for restaurants (I think to some 10% of the
order value). Restaurants are very upset about it and going to court but guess
that's the way it is. They can only go and switch to alternative platforms,
that are popping up now because of the increase.

The court case will depend on how the contract were written.
And the future of the platform on how much their customers are attached to them.
 Author: qwertyboy View Messages Posted By qwertyboy
 Posted: Sep 13, 2019 10:52
 Subject: Re: Massive PayPal fee increase 21 october
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qwertyboy (4865)

Location:  Canada, Alberta
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Apr 9, 2013 Contact Member Seller
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Store: Maple Bricks
In Selling, runner.caller writes:
  That's annoying that UK has to pay 2.9% + 30p (it'd be like 2.9% + $0.37USD).

How's that fair for those across the pond to have to pay extra $0.07 converted
per transaction?

This discussion might be moot in a couple of months...

Niek.
 Author: Andrsv View Messages Posted By Andrsv
 Posted: Aug 5, 2019 18:24
 Subject: Re: Massive PayPal fee increase 21 october
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Andrsv (271)

Location:  Norway, Rogaland
Member Since Contact Type Status
Jun 23, 2016 Contact Member Seller
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Store: AV bricks and sets
In Selling, Teup writes:
  Just got a message from PayPal they're updating their terms.

Not sure how it turns out for other countries, but here there's going to
be a fee increase of a whopping 38% of the variable cost on transactions from
the NL to most of the rest of the world. It's going from 3.9% to 5.4%. That's
pretty huge.For me that's a lot of money per month, for no extra service.

I'm glad I'll soon have my own webshop with a better payment option that
Bricklink with its empty cockpit is never going to implement..

Your own webshop?? Who's developing it?
 Author: SylvainLS View Messages Posted By SylvainLS
 Posted: Aug 5, 2019 19:19
 Subject: Re: Massive PayPal fee increase 21 october
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SylvainLS (32)

Location:  France, Nouvelle-Aquitaine
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In Selling, Andrsv writes:
  […]
Your own webshop?? Who's developing it?

Teup has a nephew who knows about computers and stuff.

Er, or was it Lt. Columbo?
 Author: Teup View Messages Posted By Teup
 Posted: Aug 5, 2019 20:16
 Subject: Re: Massive PayPal fee increase 21 october
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Teup (4252)

Location:  Netherlands, Utrecht
Member Since Contact Type Status
May 6, 2004 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: The T-workshop
In Selling, SylvainLS writes:
  In Selling, Andrsv writes:
  […]
Your own webshop?? Who's developing it?

Teup has a nephew who knows about computers and stuff.

Er, or was it Lt. Columbo?



I've been overtly lamenting my not having a webshop for several years now,
and very recently, someone in my network finally stepped up to help and get me
on the right track! There are some brilliant resources out there and combined
with my stone age level programmer skills it seems to be juuust enough to do
the trick. Maybe in a month or so it could be up and running.

Bricklink is just an object. Like an old car. It doesn't change or grow into
a Ferrari. You pay the fuel and it runs the way it always did. I could again
beg for better payment methods or post all of my improvement suggestions another
time but who am I kidding, posting them on a website that didn't even discover
timezones yet Better build up something outside of it. But I'll stick
around though
 Author: yorbrick View Messages Posted By yorbrick
 Posted: Aug 6, 2019 02:33
 Subject: Re: Massive PayPal fee increase 21 october
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yorbrick (703)

Location:  United Kingdom, England
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Store: Yorbricks
  Bricklink is just an object. Like an old car. It doesn't change or grow into
a Ferrari. You pay the fuel and it runs the way it always did.

To continue the analogy, it also breaks down more as it gets older. And all the
old mechanics that knew how to fix the old beast have long gone.
 Author: calsbricks View Messages Posted By calsbricks
 Posted: Aug 6, 2019 06:48
 Subject: Re: Massive PayPal fee increase 21 october
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calsbricks (5817)

Location:  United Kingdom, England
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Aug 12, 2008 Contact Member Seller
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Store: CalsBricks
In Selling, yorbrick writes:
  
  Bricklink is just an object. Like an old car. It doesn't change or grow into
a Ferrari. You pay the fuel and it runs the way it always did.

To continue the analogy, it also breaks down more as it gets older. And all the
old mechanics that knew how to fix the old beast have long gone.

One of the worlds most prestigious brands of Cars - Aston Martin - has gone
through bust to boom several times to get to being profitable, including being
owned by Ford, a Canadian consortium and its current owners. Change is a very
complex word with different meanings to different people.

Now it is one of the most beautiful cars on the planet but with Ian McCallum
gone to Jaguar who knows what may happen - again change good for one and not
so good for another.

Enough of that gibberish ..... need to pack some orders.
 Author: Gingerela View Messages Posted By Gingerela
 Posted: Aug 8, 2019 09:14
 Subject: Re: Massive PayPal fee increase 21 october
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Gingerela (428)

Location:  USA, Maryland
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Store Closed Store: Bricks to the Max
‘Empty cockpit’. I couldn’t have said it better! Congrats on your decision.
I am seeing more and more folks moving in this direction as well. Nothing wrong
with doing your own thing and still maintaining a presence here, stagnant as
it may be. Necessity is the mother of invention. Here’s wishing you all the
best. 🙂
 Author: Teup View Messages Posted By Teup
 Posted: Aug 8, 2019 09:56
 Subject: Re: Massive PayPal fee increase 21 october
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Teup (4252)

Location:  Netherlands, Utrecht
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Store: The T-workshop
In Selling, Gingerela writes:
  ‘Empty cockpit’. I couldn’t have said it better! Congrats on your decision.
I am seeing more and more folks moving in this direction as well. Nothing wrong
with doing your own thing and still maintaining a presence here, stagnant as
it may be. Necessity is the mother of invention. Here’s wishing you all the
best. 🙂

Thanks! I have no idea how successful it will be, but soon it will be done
and I can start promoting and then I guess I'll find out.
Either way I will stick around, I'm doing my part-outs here, which still
is great Bricklink functionality, so I think it's only fair that I do keep
on working here and contributing in terms of fee payments, just notched down
a bit. As long as the 500 errors are staying away, anyway
 Author: Eirgo View Messages Posted By Eirgo
 Posted: Sep 13, 2019 05:38
 Subject: Re: Massive PayPal fee increase 21 october
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Eirgo (320)

Location:  Ireland, Meath
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Just use Stripe if you're unhappy with Paypal's fees. Stripes are 0.25
EUR + 1.4%. Cheap comparing it to Paypal.
 Author: Teup View Messages Posted By Teup
 Posted: Sep 13, 2019 05:48
 Subject: Re: Massive PayPal fee increase 21 october
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Teup (4252)

Location:  Netherlands, Utrecht
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Store: The T-workshop
In Selling, Eirgo writes:
  Just use Stripe if you're unhappy with Paypal's fees. Stripes are 0.25
EUR + 1.4%. Cheap comparing it to Paypal.

Just checked the website, never checked it before. Looks good, seems it's
a whole package deal of a lot of payment methods combined in one. Thanks for
the tip, I'm going to look into this!