Discussion Forum: Thread 254675

 Author: gothwerx View Messages Posted By gothwerx
 Posted: Jul 12, 2019 12:28
 Subject: Shipping Cost
 Viewed: 124 times
 Topic: Problem Order
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gothwerx (25)

Location:  Canada, Alberta
Member Since Contact Type Status
May 3, 2006 Member Does Not Allow Contact Buyer
Buying Privileges - OK
I created an order from a store located in the same city as me. I checked his
shipping costs, and he said he used cheapest option available, which was canada
post. I placed the order. He presented me with an invoice for 119.50$ shipping
cost for an envelope worth of parts. I asked why so expensive, and he said that
I agreed to the shipping costs, and that I needed to pay now. I said that I obviously
wasn't going to pay that much. He was quite rude about whether I was literate
or not, and kept saying that I wasn't making any sense asking why the shipping
was so expensive. I asked if he could send me a proper amount for shipping. (his
shipping address is only about 20 minutes from my house). He said no. I asked
to cancel the order. He said no, and then filed a non-paying buyer complaint
against me. I responded that I wasn't accepting a NPB because his shipping
info didn't say anything about a massive shipping cost, and that Bricklinks
own cancellation policies allow me to request a cancel in the event of unreasonable
shipping costs. He has not responded in over two weeks.
 Author: manganschlamm View Messages Posted By manganschlamm
 Posted: Jul 12, 2019 13:09
 Subject: Re: Shipping Cost
 Viewed: 47 times
 Topic: Problem Order
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manganschlamm (1199)

Location:  Germany, Rheinland-Pfalz
Member Since Contact Type Status
Mar 8, 2016 Contact Member Buyer
Buying Privileges - OK
In Problem Order, gothwerx writes:
  I created an order from a store located in the same city as me. I checked his
shipping costs, and he said he used cheapest option available, which was canada
post. I placed the order. He presented me with an invoice for 119.50$ shipping
cost for an envelope worth of parts. I asked why so expensive, and he said that
I agreed to the shipping costs, and that I needed to pay now. I said that I obviously
wasn't going to pay that much. He was quite rude about whether I was literate
or not, and kept saying that I wasn't making any sense asking why the shipping
was so expensive. I asked if he could send me a proper amount for shipping. (his
shipping address is only about 20 minutes from my house). He said no. I asked
to cancel the order. He said no, and then filed a non-paying buyer complaint
against me. I responded that I wasn't accepting a NPB because his shipping
info didn't say anything about a massive shipping cost, and that Bricklinks
own cancellation policies allow me to request a cancel in the event of unreasonable
shipping costs. He has not responded in over two weeks.


You could also offer to pick the order up in person to save on shipping costs.
If this is refused, it is clear proof that shipping costs are used in a fraudulent
way.
 Author: iprice View Messages Posted By iprice
 Posted: Jul 12, 2019 13:33
 Subject: Re: Shipping Cost
 Viewed: 57 times
 Topic: Problem Order
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iprice (338)

Location:  United Kingdom, England
Member Since Contact Type Status
Apr 15, 2018 Contact Member Buyer
Buying Privileges - OK
In Problem Order, gothwerx writes:
  I created an order from a store located in the same city as me. I checked his
shipping costs, and he said he used cheapest option available, which was canada
post. I placed the order. He presented me with an invoice for 119.50$ shipping
cost for an envelope worth of parts. I asked why so expensive, and he said that
I agreed to the shipping costs, and that I needed to pay now. I said that I obviously
wasn't going to pay that much. He was quite rude about whether I was literate
or not, and kept saying that I wasn't making any sense asking why the shipping
was so expensive. I asked if he could send me a proper amount for shipping. (his
shipping address is only about 20 minutes from my house). He said no. I asked
to cancel the order. He said no, and then filed a non-paying buyer complaint
against me. I responded that I wasn't accepting a NPB because his shipping
info didn't say anything about a massive shipping cost, and that Bricklinks
own cancellation policies allow me to request a cancel in the event of unreasonable
shipping costs. He has not responded in over two weeks.

I really detest BrickLink's rules about accepting orders before all fees
are known and order cancellations, which are actually illegal in the EU - see
Distance Selling Laws.

IMHO Order contracts should NOT be accepted by the buyer until ALL information
is known about costs, including shipping and any and ALL other fees.

It really pisses me off that sellers can hold buyer's over a barrel with
stupid shipping and extra costs AFTER they've accepted the price or parts
alone. Seller's terms do not always show accurate costs of shipping (which
is impossible to judge as often weights of the order are not available), or what
other fees/costs are involved. A buyer should know ALL of these prior to purchase.
 Author: nymira View Messages Posted By nymira
 Posted: Jul 12, 2019 13:47
 Subject: Re: Shipping Cost
 Viewed: 46 times
 Topic: Problem Order
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nymira (740)

Location:  Canada, Ontario
Member Since Contact Type Status
Jan 5, 2018 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: Emporiosa
  I really detest BrickLink's rules about accepting orders before all fees
are known and order cancellations, which are actually illegal in the EU - see
Distance Selling Laws.

IMHO Order contracts should NOT be accepted by the buyer until ALL information
is known about costs, including shipping and any and ALL other fees.

It really pisses me off that sellers can hold buyer's over a barrel with
stupid shipping and extra costs AFTER they've accepted the price or parts
alone. Seller's terms do not always show accurate costs of shipping (which
is impossible to judge as often weights of the order are not available), or what
other fees/costs are involved. A buyer should know ALL of these prior to purchase.

I'm 100% in agreement with you as both a buyer and a seller. As a buyer,
I hate wondering what kind of shipping costs a particular seller will charge.
As a seller, I know what kind of small business rates should be, but often I'm
finding other sellers charging regular counter rates + added fees. And like you
said, as a seller, we can't easily use IC and other charts because domestic
shipping is ultra granular here in Canada, so it's necessary for sellers
to input accurate shipping costs after receiving the order.

As a seller, I'd be much more comfortable knowing that a buyer can choose
to accept it or not. This would also help with the "cancelled orders" because
invoices that aren't accepted would no longer turn out to be a cancelled
order (which I don't think is an accurate metric anyways since NPBs end up
there too, which at least for me, is the majority of them).

I'd recommend shortening the invoice time for response/payment to 5 days
if they would implement this. But I really hope they do change this aspect, if
not only to help adhere to EU laws, but to just make it easier for buyers and
sellers to feel comfortable about buying and selling here on BL.

-Sarah
 Author: Teup View Messages Posted By Teup
 Posted: Jul 12, 2019 14:05
 Subject: Re: Shipping Cost
 Viewed: 60 times
 Topic: Problem Order
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Teup (4014)

Location:  Netherlands, Utrecht
Member Since Contact Type Status
May 6, 2004 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: The T-workshop
In Problem Order, iprice writes:
  In Problem Order, gothwerx writes:
  I created an order from a store located in the same city as me. I checked his
shipping costs, and he said he used cheapest option available, which was canada
post. I placed the order. He presented me with an invoice for 119.50$ shipping
cost for an envelope worth of parts. I asked why so expensive, and he said that
I agreed to the shipping costs, and that I needed to pay now. I said that I obviously
wasn't going to pay that much. He was quite rude about whether I was literate
or not, and kept saying that I wasn't making any sense asking why the shipping
was so expensive. I asked if he could send me a proper amount for shipping. (his
shipping address is only about 20 minutes from my house). He said no. I asked
to cancel the order. He said no, and then filed a non-paying buyer complaint
against me. I responded that I wasn't accepting a NPB because his shipping
info didn't say anything about a massive shipping cost, and that Bricklinks
own cancellation policies allow me to request a cancel in the event of unreasonable
shipping costs. He has not responded in over two weeks.

I really detest BrickLink's rules about accepting orders before all fees
are known and order cancellations, which are actually illegal in the EU - see
Distance Selling Laws.

IMHO Order contracts should NOT be accepted by the buyer until ALL information
is known about costs, including shipping and any and ALL other fees.

It really pisses me off that sellers can hold buyer's over a barrel with
stupid shipping and extra costs AFTER they've accepted the price or parts
alone. Seller's terms do not always show accurate costs of shipping (which
is impossible to judge as often weights of the order are not available), or what
other fees/costs are involved. A buyer should know ALL of these prior to purchase.

+1

It's super weird that Bricklink has no hard system like BrickOwl, the seller
is free to describe their fees in a textbox in whatever ingenuous format they
like, but at the same time these texts are not checked or moderated by Bricklink.
I say either you design a formal system that cannot be circumvented with "blabla",
OR you moderate the "blabla".

Luckily, instant checkout is a big improvement. I think it's a great system
that works really well, and it's one thing Bricklink did manage to roll out
that I am very happy with. But unfortunately it hasn't eliminated all of
the problems, and not all sellers are able to translate their postal service
prices (which I have been told is actual rocket science for Canada) into an instant
check-out system.

I wish there was a button attached to the invoice or something for reporting
fees that are not in agreement with the terms. It's easy to check. Bricklink
has the invoice, Bricklink has the terms (they even saved the version of date
of purchase!). All we would have needed was for an admin to check if they match.
If they don't.... I say 2 times warning and 3rd time.. you're out.
 Author: iprice View Messages Posted By iprice
 Posted: Jul 12, 2019 15:35
 Subject: Re: Shipping Cost
 Viewed: 43 times
 Topic: Problem Order
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iprice (338)

Location:  United Kingdom, England
Member Since Contact Type Status
Apr 15, 2018 Contact Member Buyer
Buying Privileges - OK
In Problem Order, Teup writes:
  In Problem Order, iprice writes:
  In Problem Order, gothwerx writes:
  I created an order from a store located in the same city as me. I checked his
shipping costs, and he said he used cheapest option available, which was canada
post. I placed the order. He presented me with an invoice for 119.50$ shipping
cost for an envelope worth of parts. I asked why so expensive, and he said that
I agreed to the shipping costs, and that I needed to pay now. I said that I obviously
wasn't going to pay that much. He was quite rude about whether I was literate
or not, and kept saying that I wasn't making any sense asking why the shipping
was so expensive. I asked if he could send me a proper amount for shipping. (his
shipping address is only about 20 minutes from my house). He said no. I asked
to cancel the order. He said no, and then filed a non-paying buyer complaint
against me. I responded that I wasn't accepting a NPB because his shipping
info didn't say anything about a massive shipping cost, and that Bricklinks
own cancellation policies allow me to request a cancel in the event of unreasonable
shipping costs. He has not responded in over two weeks.

I really detest BrickLink's rules about accepting orders before all fees
are known and order cancellations, which are actually illegal in the EU - see
Distance Selling Laws.

IMHO Order contracts should NOT be accepted by the buyer until ALL information
is known about costs, including shipping and any and ALL other fees.

It really pisses me off that sellers can hold buyer's over a barrel with
stupid shipping and extra costs AFTER they've accepted the price or parts
alone. Seller's terms do not always show accurate costs of shipping (which
is impossible to judge as often weights of the order are not available), or what
other fees/costs are involved. A buyer should know ALL of these prior to purchase.

+1

It's super weird that Bricklink has no hard system like BrickOwl, the seller
is free to describe their fees in a textbox in whatever ingenuous format they
like, but at the same time these texts are not checked or moderated by Bricklink.
I say either you design a formal system that cannot be circumvented with "blabla",
OR you moderate the "blabla".

Luckily, instant checkout is a big improvement. I think it's a great system
that works really well, and it's one thing Bricklink did manage to roll out
that I am very happy with. But unfortunately it hasn't eliminated all of
the problems, and not all sellers are able to translate their postal service
prices (which I have been told is actual rocket science for Canada) into an instant
check-out system.

I wish there was a button attached to the invoice or something for reporting
fees that are not in agreement with the terms. It's easy to check. Bricklink
has the invoice, Bricklink has the terms (they even saved the version of date
of purchase!). All we would have needed was for an admin to check if they match.
If they don't.... I say 2 times warning and 3rd time.. you're out.

+1. Absolutely right. The buyer should never have to guess or be surprised when
an onvoice comes through.

Bricklink don't give a feck about the buyer. Their rights are completely
(and illegally) ignored, so that they get their cut of a sale. I don't think
they care too much about sellers either TBH though - look at all the issues with
the website, preventing buyers and sellers from doing business.

IC does prevent a lot of these problems and is definitely a step in the right
direction.
 Author: yorbrick View Messages Posted By yorbrick
 Posted: Jul 12, 2019 13:49
 Subject: Re: Shipping Cost
 Viewed: 50 times
 Topic: Problem Order
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yorbrick (668)

Location:  United Kingdom, England
Member Since Contact Type Status
Apr 11, 2011 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store Closed Store: Yorbricks
In Problem Order, gothwerx writes:
  I created an order from a store located in the same city as me. I checked his
shipping costs, and he said he used cheapest option available, which was canada
post. I placed the order. He presented me with an invoice for 119.50$ shipping
cost for an envelope worth of parts. I asked why so expensive, and he said that
I agreed to the shipping costs, and that I needed to pay now. I said that I obviously
wasn't going to pay that much. He was quite rude about whether I was literate
or not, and kept saying that I wasn't making any sense asking why the shipping
was so expensive. I asked if he could send me a proper amount for shipping. (his
shipping address is only about 20 minutes from my house). He said no. I asked
to cancel the order. He said no, and then filed a non-paying buyer complaint
against me. I responded that I wasn't accepting a NPB because his shipping
info didn't say anything about a massive shipping cost, and that Bricklinks
own cancellation policies allow me to request a cancel in the event of unreasonable
shipping costs. He has not responded in over two weeks.

Were the parts or sets really cheap compared to other sellers? If so, he is doing
cheap prices to avoid paying BL fees, then inflating them with postage.

Probably best to respond to the NPB saying the shipping is too high.
 Author: sickofthis88 View Messages Posted By sickofthis88
 Posted: Jul 12, 2019 14:26
 Subject: Re: Shipping Cost
 Viewed: 53 times
 Topic: Problem Order
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sickofthis88 (155)

Location:  USA, Maryland
Member Since Contact Type Status
Nov 25, 2017 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store Closed Store: Wickednessofoz
The first time I buy from someone where the actual shipping costs are not ready
when I post my order, I ask for an invoice, and I have never had a problem.
Where I did have a problem was with one seller who had outrageous shipping costs.
I had put items in my cart - about $15 worth of parts, none of which were large
enough to have shipping costs be more than $16. Needless to say, I emptied the
cart and put this seller on my list of those not to buy from. I live in the U.S.
and only buy, unless it absolutely necessary, from another country. There have
however, been more than a few "miscellaneous" charges which are obviously there
to make up for the cheap prices of the parts and to skirt bricklinks fees. Again,
those buyers may get me once but they too go on my don't buy from list.
In this case if someone had billed me more than $100 in shipping costs I would
probably be in the hospital dying from laughter. Now, if it was larges sets
in original boxes, fully insured.....maybe.
 Author: Bricks_NW_UK View Messages Posted By Bricks_NW_UK
 Posted: Jul 12, 2019 15:04
 Subject: Re: Shipping Cost
 Viewed: 41 times
 Topic: Problem Order
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Bricks_NW_UK (215)

Location:  United Kingdom, England
Member Since Contact Type Status
Sep 28, 2016 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: Bricks NW UK
In Problem Order, sickofthis88 writes:
  The first time I buy from someone where the actual shipping costs are not ready
when I post my order, I ask for an invoice, and I have never had a problem.
Where I did have a problem was with one seller who had outrageous shipping costs.
I had put items in my cart - about $15 worth of parts, none of which were large
enough to have shipping costs be more than $16. Needless to say, I emptied the
cart and put this seller on my list of those not to buy from. I live in the U.S.
and only buy, unless it absolutely necessary, from another country. There have
however, been more than a few "miscellaneous" charges which are obviously there
to make up for the cheap prices of the parts and to skirt bricklinks fees. Again,
those buyers may get me once but they too go on my don't buy from list.
In this case if someone had billed me more than $100 in shipping costs I would
probably be in the hospital dying from laughter. Now, if it was larges sets
in original boxes, fully insured.....maybe.

I think it should be mandatory to show all your shipping costs up front.

Sounds like this seller is trying to avoid BL fees by selling cheap and stacking
the shipping

I only offer domestic shipping, but my costs are show on my terms page
 Author: Dutchstyle View Messages Posted By Dutchstyle
 Posted: Jul 19, 2019 05:12
 Subject: Re: Shipping Cost
 Viewed: 35 times
 Topic: Problem Order
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Dutchstyle (4969)

Location:  Netherlands, Zuid-Holland
Member Since Contact Type Status
Dec 15, 2004 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: Dutchstyle Bricks
In Problem Order, Bricks_NW_UK writes:
  
I think it should be mandatory to show all your shipping costs up front.

Sounds like this seller is trying to avoid BL fees by selling cheap and stacking
the shipping

I only offer domestic shipping, but my costs are show on my terms page

I tend to agree. I'd love to see a roadmap to an "instant check out only"
website, like BO.

I do believe that this is in the best interest of all parties here; buyers as
they can actually compare the total costs of an order in advance of placing it,
sellers as they can use more parameters than just the salesprices to compete
with each other and Bricklink as they might see higher fees in the long run as
salesprices will become a less important driver of sales.