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| | | Author: | KMonneron  | | Posted: | Aug 1, 2018 04:51 | | Subject: | 42063-40,40th anniversary chassis log in | | Viewed: | 92 times | | Topic: | Catalog | | Status: | Open | |
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| could we have a set number and an inventory for the 40th anniversary chassis
Technic set please
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| | | | | Author: | StormChaser | | Posted: | Aug 1, 2018 05:12 | | Subject: | Re: 42063-40,40th anniversary chassis log in | | Viewed: | 45 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Suggestions, KMonneron writes:
| | could we have a set number and an inventory for the 40th anniversary chassis
Technic set please
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Don't know if it will be approved, but here you go:
[S=Tech40-1]
You'll need to submit an inventory to the catalog if the set is approved
- and there's no parts list. The inventory will have to be done the old-fashioned
way.
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| | | | | | | Author: | WoutR | | Posted: | Aug 1, 2018 05:55 | | Subject: | Re: 42063-40,40th anniversary chassis log in | | Viewed: | 45 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Suggestions, StormChaser writes:
| | In Suggestions, KMonneron writes:
| | could we have a set number and an inventory for the 40th anniversary chassis
Technic set please
|
Don't know if it will be approved, but here you go:
[S=Tech40-1]
You'll need to submit an inventory to the catalog if the set is approved
- and there's no parts list. The inventory will have to be done the old-fashioned
way.
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Isn't this an alternative build for a regular set?
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | Hygrotus | | Posted: | Aug 1, 2018 06:04 | | Subject: | Re: 42063-40,40th anniversary chassis log in | | Viewed: | 46 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Suggestions, WoutR writes:
| | In Suggestions, StormChaser writes:
| | In Suggestions, KMonneron writes:
| | could we have a set number and an inventory for the 40th anniversary chassis
Technic set please
|
Don't know if it will be approved, but here you go:
[S=Tech40-1]
You'll need to submit an inventory to the catalog if the set is approved
- and there's no parts list. The inventory will have to be done the old-fashioned
way.
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Isn't this an alternative build for a regular set?
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Yes
https://brickset.com/article/27565/technic-40-year-anniversary-model
using parts from three sets:
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| | | | | Author: | Hygrotus | | Posted: | Aug 1, 2018 06:20 | | Subject: | Re: 42063-40,40th anniversary chassis log in | | Viewed: | 56 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Suggestions, KMonneron writes:
| | could we have a set number and an inventory for the 40th anniversary chassis
Technic set please
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if this one be in catalog then why not this one:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/eurobricks-starwars/sets/72157625492057334/
This was offical Lego instruction given in 2009 to build Malovelance from parts
from all 2009 SW sets.
the same case 
then we have mixels they had also official Lego instructions to build bigger
ones from three others combine, why not they then also in catalog 
there are many more...
sets like this LEGO Techinc model not in the catalog
like also for example official instructions for alternate models in Lego Club
Magazines or alternate models for this one (also with offcial instructions):
you could build Outrider or T19
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| | | | | | | Author: | StormChaser | | Posted: | Aug 1, 2018 14:11 | | Subject: | Re: 42063-40,40th anniversary chassis log in | | Viewed: | 30 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Suggestions, Hygrotus writes:
| | there are many more...
sets like this LEGO Techinc model not in the catalog
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I suppose you have a point. From the standpoint of inventories, adding all of
these sets and their inventories would create a slightly skewed picture
of parts (since they never were released sets).
But if we're saying that, then shouldn't these two sets be removed from
the catalog?
They already have instruction entries as books:
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | Hygrotus | | Posted: | Aug 1, 2018 14:27 | | Subject: | Re: 42063-40,40th anniversary chassis log in | | Viewed: | 31 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Suggestions, StormChaser writes:
| | In Suggestions, Hygrotus writes:
| | there are many more...
sets like this LEGO Techinc model not in the catalog
|
I suppose you have a point. From the standpoint of inventories, adding all of
these sets and their inventories would create a slightly skewed picture
of parts (since they never were released sets).
But if we're saying that, then shouldn't these two sets be removed from
the catalog?
They already have instruction entries as books:
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Just quick respond. Didn't check that but aren't those above printed
and modern ones only virtual in pdfs? That could be the issue to leave those
alredy in the catalog.
But if you ask in my opinion should be only as instructions in books not as sets.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Jan_K | | Posted: | Aug 1, 2018 14:43 | | Subject: | Re: 42063-40,40th anniversary chassis log in | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Suggestions, Hygrotus writes:
| | In Suggestions, StormChaser writes:
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| | | | But if we're saying that, then shouldn't these two sets be removed from
the catalog?
They already have instruction entries as books:
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| | Just quick respond. Didn't check that but aren't those above printed
and modern ones only virtual in pdfs? That could be the issue to leave those
alredy in the catalog.
But if you ask in my opinion should be only as instructions in books not as sets.
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They have been sold as sets - at least 6861 (The Blacktron one) has been distributed
as a shrinkwrapped combination of the three sealed sub-sets plus the instructions
leaflet for the Combo model.
https://www.bricklink.com/catalogItemPic.asp?O=6861-2
Jan
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Hygrotus | | Posted: | Aug 1, 2018 14:54 | | Subject: | Re: 42063-40,40th anniversary chassis log in | | Viewed: | 22 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Suggestions, Jan_K writes:
| | In Suggestions, Hygrotus writes:
| | In Suggestions, StormChaser writes:
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| | | | But if we're saying that, then shouldn't these two sets be removed from
the catalog?
They already have instruction entries as books:
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| | Just quick respond. Didn't check that but aren't those above printed
and modern ones only virtual in pdfs? That could be the issue to leave those
alredy in the catalog.
But if you ask in my opinion should be only as instructions in books not as sets.
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They have been sold as sets - at least 6861 (The Blacktron one) has been distributed
as a shrinkwrapped combination of the three sealed sub-sets plus the instructions
leaflet for the Combo model.
https://www.bricklink.com/catalogItemPic.asp?O=6861-2
Jan
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Thanks for info, so should stay as set in this case
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | StormChaser | | Posted: | Aug 1, 2018 15:09 | | Subject: | Re: 42063-40,40th anniversary chassis log in | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Suggestions, Jan_K writes:
| | They have been sold as sets - at least 6861 (The Blacktron one) has been distributed
as a shrinkwrapped combination of the three sealed sub-sets plus the instructions
leaflet for the Combo model.
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The set was never sold as a standalone set. It only existed as instructions.
The sub-sets you mention were actually sets in their own right and the pack
was merely a combo pack of those sets with bonus instructions.
The 40th anniversary model we're discussing is exactly the same as
the other sets you mention:
Anyway, the original two super model sets appear to have been a BrickLink catalog
experiment which was not repeated (although there has been ample opportunity
for adding additional similar sets).
Therefore, since Marek and I agree that these should not be considered sets (at
least for inventory purposes), I am thinking about deleting the inventories for
these two sets (one of which I added myself):
If anyone objects, now would be the time to mention it.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Jan_K | | Posted: | Aug 1, 2018 15:53 | | Subject: | Re: 42063-40,40th anniversary chassis log in | | Viewed: | 30 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Suggestions, StormChaser writes:
| | In Suggestions, Jan_K writes:
| | They have been sold as sets - at least 6861 (The Blacktron one) has been distributed
as a shrinkwrapped combination of the three sealed sub-sets plus the instructions
leaflet for the Combo model.
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| | The set was never sold as a standalone set. It only existed as instructions.
The sub-sets you mention were actually sets in their own right and the pack
was merely a combo pack of those sets with bonus instructions.
The 40th anniversary model we're discussing is exactly the same as
the other sets you mention:
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With all due respect, but this is far from being the truth.
The anniversary model is nothing but an online instructions manual that makes
use of roughly 50% of the parts included in the three sets it's sourced from
- and no combo-pack behind. It merely anything more than an official building
idea.
6861 is a unit actually sold like shown in the catalog - as one object (call
it combo pack or set, whatever you like - for the BL database it's a set
either way) including the instructions leaflet numbered 6861.
Plus, it got a set number (even a unique one in case of the 6862).
It wasn't even distributed by LEGO only - see attached image with a clearance
price tag of a physical retail store.
| | Therefore, since Marek and I agree that these should not be considered sets (at
least for inventory purposes), I am thinking about deleting the inventories for
these two sets (one of which I added myself):
If anyone objects, now would be the time to mention it.
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I do object. Do not delete the inventory but replace it with the correct
one - just like other combo-packs or value packs with fully valid standalone
sub-sets inside:
https://www.bricklink.com/catalogItemInv.asp?S=1530-1
https://www.bricklink.com/catalogItemInv.asp?S=4127417-1 plus
https://www.bricklink.com/catalogItemInv.asp?S=4127417-1&viewItemType=G
https://www.bricklink.com/catalogItemInv.asp?S=VP-12
https://www.bricklink.com/catalogItemInv.asp?S=65844-1
and please make sure the inventory either includes the "book" (which is an instruction
leaflet, of course) - or the set keeps having an instructions entry with the
book being removed from the catalog:
https://www.bricklink.com/v2/catalog/catalogitem.page?I=6861-2
https://www.bricklink.com/v2/catalog/catalogitem.page?B=120317
While we are at it, 6861-2 should be merged with
* | | 4741-1 (Inv) Space Blacktron II Bundle Pack (Copack of Sets 6851, 6878, and 6887) - Blacktron Super Vehicle
3 Sets, 1 Book, 1993
Sets: Space: Blacktron II |
https://www.bricklink.com/v2/catalog/catalogitem.page?S=4741-1
since they are actually the same and can't be told apart as phyiscal items
- 4741 is nothing but an alternate item number for/from shop@home which is not
visible anywhere on the physical item.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | StormChaser | | Posted: | Aug 2, 2018 04:59 | | Subject: | Re: 42063-40,40th anniversary chassis log in | | Viewed: | 26 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Suggestions, Jan_K writes:
| | In Suggestions, StormChaser writes:
| | The 40th anniversary model we're discussing is exactly the same as
the other sets you mention:
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With all due respect, but this is far from being the truth.
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I wouldn't say far from the truth, but I was somewhat wrong when I said the
situations were exactly the same. What I originally believed was a photo of
an instruction booklet from the TLG website may in fact be only a render (photo
attached).
Nevertheless, there are strong similarities between these cases.
| | The anniversary model is nothing but an online instructions manual that makes
use of roughly 50% of the parts included in the three sets it's sourced from
- and no combo-pack behind.
|
It was sold as a bundle with its own item number:
| | I do object. Do not delete the inventory but replace it with the correct
one
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The correct inventories already exist for both of the space sets:
* | | 4741-1 (Inv) Space Blacktron II Bundle Pack (Copack of Sets 6851, 6878, and 6887) - Blacktron Super Vehicle
3 Sets, 1 Book, 1993
Sets: Space: Blacktron II |
* | | 6861-3 (Inv) Space M:Tron Bundle Pack (Copack of Sets 6877, 6896, and 6923) - Secret M:Tron Space Voyager
3 Sets, 1 Book, 1993
Sets: Space: M:Tron |
After speaking with Russell I have decided not to do anything with the non-sets
6861-2 and 6862-1. It may be possible to correct the problems with non-sets
(like these and unreleased sets) with a technical solution.
At least, that is, the phantom parts problem. The problem of certain sets being
given a special exception while other similar sets are excluded from the catalog
may be more difficult.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Jan_K | | Posted: | Aug 2, 2018 10:34 | | Subject: | Re: 42063-40,40th anniversary chassis log in | | Viewed: | 29 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Suggestions, StormChaser writes:
| | In Suggestions, Jan_K writes:
| | In Suggestions, StormChaser writes:
| | The 40th anniversary model we're discussing is exactly the same as
the other sets you mention:
|
With all due respect, but this is far from being the truth.
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| | I wouldn't say far from the truth, but I was somewhat wrong when I said the
situations were exactly the same. What I originally believed was a photo of
an instruction booklet from the TLG website may in fact be only a render (photo
attached).
|
Thanks for that image! Indeed, a pretty good rendering... and it certainly helps
to understand your approach, of course.
| | | | The anniversary model is nothing but an online instructions manual that makes
use of roughly 50% of the parts included in the three sets it's sourced from
- and no combo-pack behind.
|
It was sold as a bundle with its own item number:
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This is something I wasn't aware of - and therefore, you're right:
| | Nevertheless, there are strong similarities between these cases.
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And if they had included a printed instruction manual with an actual, new set
number - then we would indeed see identical cases here.
But AFAIK this wasn't the case. And in addition, I believe that 5005496 is
nothing but an internal code for "throw all three sets in a box" - and not a
physical co-pack or even an individual retail product.
| | | | I do object. Do not delete the inventory but replace it with the correct
one
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| | The correct inventories already exist for both of the space sets:
* | | 4741-1 (Inv) Space Blacktron II Bundle Pack (Copack of Sets 6851, 6878, and 6887) - Blacktron Super Vehicle
3 Sets, 1 Book, 1993
Sets: Space: Blacktron II |
* | | 6861-3 (Inv) Space M:Tron Bundle Pack (Copack of Sets 6877, 6896, and 6923) - Secret M:Tron Space Voyager
3 Sets, 1 Book, 1993
Sets: Space: M:Tron |
After speaking with Russell I have decided not to do anything with the non-sets
6861-2 and 6862-1.
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I do not really see the point to differentiate between what you call sets and
"non-sets" - 4741-1 "Blacktron Super Vehicle (Value 3-Pack)" is 6861-2
- the instruction leaflet should not be a standalone catalog item since it never
came without the three sets.
Plus: 6861-3 (why the heck did they use the number 6861 in the shop@home
catalog image? - another indication that these s@h numbers are pretty useless...)
is 6862-1.
| | It may be possible to correct the problems with non-sets
(like these and unreleased sets) with a technical solution.
|
If inventories do not include parts (but only sub-sets), I don't see the
issue. Just avoid duplicate entries when an alternate item number (for identification)
is sufficient.
| | At least, that is, the phantom parts problem.
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You refer to inventoried parts in unreleased sets, right? Since they are not
(tecnically) necessary (no actual part-out will ever happen), they are just a
guide to help collectors re-build these sets, imho.
It's a strategigal decision if BrickLink feels the need to serve this purpose.
| | The problem of certain sets being given a special exception while other similar
sets are excluded from the catalog may be more difficult.
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Not sure if this is actually an issue, as long as "similar2 is not "identical".
The presence of a set number (especially if printed on a phyiscal instruction
leaflet) has always been a good indication to include a release in a database.
Jan
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | StormChaser | | Posted: | Aug 2, 2018 14:43 | | Subject: | Re: 42063-40,40th anniversary chassis log in | | Viewed: | 23 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog, Jan_K writes:
| | In Suggestions, StormChaser writes:
| | At least, that is, the phantom parts problem.
|
You refer to inventoried parts in unreleased sets, right? Since they are not
(tecnically) necessary (no actual part-out will ever happen), they are just a
guide to help collectors re-build these sets, imho.
It's a strategigal decision if BrickLink feels the need to serve this purpose.
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The problem is that inventories for unreleased sets (and the duplicated parts
in combined sets) show up in the parts database. For example, let's consider
this figure:
If you click on the figure's catalog entry, then you can see it appeared
in 13 sets. That is inaccurate, though. The figure only appeared in 12 sets
and the 13th appearance is a phantom appearance because it never really happened:
I'm all for unreleased sets having inventories, but those inventories shouldn't
affect the parts database. The same goes for combined sets like those we were
discussing because their inventories create duplicate part appearances in the
database.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | StormChaser | | Posted: | Aug 1, 2018 14:53 | | Subject: | Re: 42063-40,40th anniversary chassis log in | | Viewed: | 27 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Suggestions, Hygrotus writes:
| | But if you ask in my opinion should be only as instructions in books not as sets.
|
I agree, sort of.
There should be some way to create an area which is separated from the main BL
catalog where these sets can exist and have inventories for those who are interested.
This issue, BTW, also includes unreleased sets - the inventories of those sets
are problematic as well since they were never released.
Sets could be bought and sold from that separate area, but the parts in their
inventories would not affect the main catalog (meaning would not show up in part
timelines/colors appearing).
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Hygrotus | | Posted: | Aug 1, 2018 14:55 | | Subject: | Re: 42063-40,40th anniversary chassis log in | | Viewed: | 25 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Suggestions, StormChaser writes:
| | In Suggestions, Hygrotus writes:
| | But if you ask in my opinion should be only as instructions in books not as sets.
|
I agree, sort of.
There should be some way to create an area which is separated from the main BL
catalog where these sets can exist and have inventories for those who are interested.
This issue, BTW, also includes unreleased sets - the inventories of those sets
are problematic as well since they were never released.
Sets could be bought and sold from that separate area, but the parts in their
inventories would not affect the main catalog (meaning would not show up in part
timelines/colors appearing).
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This is a good idea
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| | | | | Author: | tEoS | | Posted: | Aug 1, 2018 10:56 | | Subject: | Re: 42063-40,40th anniversary chassis log in | | Viewed: | 42 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| I already advised you on your previous post that this isn't a set, it is
a combiner model. There are plenty of other combiner models that have not made
their way into the catalog.
In Suggestions, KMonneron writes:
| | could we have a set number and an inventory for the 40th anniversary chassis
Technic set please
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Australia, New South Wales
USA, Oklahoma
Netherlands, Zuid-Holland
Poland, w. Wielkopolskie
Germany, Nordrhein-Westfalen
