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| | | Author: | ToriHada  | | Posted: | May 9, 2014 12:34 | | Subject: | Please Ban Mouthpiece Accounts | | Viewed: | 454 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | | Status: | Discarded | |
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| Please revise or interpret the ToS to prohibit non-buying and non-selling accounts
set up solely for supposedly representing the interests of a group of existing
BL members.
If members have anything important to say, they should man up and say it under
their member name. Doing so makes every member more accountable for what they
say. By allowing these mouthpiece PACs, members can at least partially shield
themselves from accountability for the interests and positions the mouthpiece
account advances. Thus, they can promote unpopular or controversial issues without
being held directly responsible for doing so.
Furthermore, allowing these mouthpiece accounts sets a bad precedent and, if
no action is taken, will encourage others to do the same. Mouthpiece accounts
that do no actual buying and selling themselves and exist solely for posting
in the forum will only make the Forum a more politicized and contentious place
for all, and largely without the personal accountability that would result if
an individual member posted in their own name as opposed to some group mouthpiece.
Thor
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| | | | | Author: | FigBits | | Posted: | May 9, 2014 12:39 | | Subject: | Re: Please Ban Mouthpiece Accounts | | Viewed: | 88 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | Please revise or interpret the ToS to prohibit non-buying and non-selling accounts
set up solely for supposedly representing the interests of a group of existing
BL members.
If members have anything important to say, they should man up and say it under
their member name. Doing so makes every member more accountable for what they
say. By allowing these mouthpiece PACs, members can at least partially shield
themselves from accountability for the interests and positions the mouthpiece
account advances. Thus, they can promote unpopular or controversial issues without
being held directly responsible for doing so.
Furthermore, allowing these mouthpiece accounts sets a bad precedent and, if
no action is taken, will encourage others to do the same. Mouthpiece accounts
that do no actual buying and selling themselves and exist solely for posting
in the forum will only make the Forum a more politicized and contentious place
for all, and largely without the personal accountability that would result if
an individual member posted in their own name as opposed to some group mouthpiece.
Thor
|
No need. I don't imagine this catching on, so instituting a ban is premature.
Such accounts are self-defeating, and are unlikely to bec9me a problem.
--
Marc.
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| | | | | Author: | eileenkeeney | | Posted: | May 9, 2014 12:45 | | Subject: | Re: Please Ban Mouthpiece Accounts | | Viewed: | 82 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | Please revise or interpret the ToS to prohibit non-buying and non-selling accounts
set up solely for supposedly representing the interests of a group of existing
BL members.
If members have anything important to say, they should man up and say it under
their member name. Doing so makes every member more accountable for what they
say. By allowing these mouthpiece PACs, members can at least partially shield
themselves from accountability for the interests and positions the mouthpiece
account advances. Thus, they can promote unpopular or controversial issues without
being held directly responsible for doing so.
Furthermore, allowing these mouthpiece accounts sets a bad precedent and, if
no action is taken, will encourage others to do the same. Mouthpiece accounts
that do no actual buying and selling themselves and exist solely for posting
in the forum will only make the Forum a more politicized and contentious place
for all, and largely without the personal accountability that would result if
an individual member posted in their own name as opposed to some group mouthpiece.
Thor
|
Probably not worth the effort to try to figure out if an account is for the purpose
of being a mouthpiece.
Some sites don't allow any non moderated forum posts, until an account meets
certain criteria. This criteria might be some number of posts. But this would
take the effort of having someone moderate the posts.
But really,
Just not reading posts that one does not want to read is pretty easy.
It is not as if this forum has so much traffic that it is hard to quickly not
read those I don't want to read.
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| | | | | | | Author: | mhn1957 | | Posted: | May 9, 2014 12:54 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 61 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| | (Cancelled) |
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| | | | | Author: | maxx3001 | | Posted: | May 9, 2014 13:05 | | Subject: | Re: Please Ban Fosters Mouthpiece Account. | | Viewed: | 158 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| Voted no.
Unions a not forbidden and give not only extra strenght to ones voice, but also
makes it easier to communicate to the outside world.
As long as this is allowed under the Tos, I applaud their effort.
It may just be that this is one of the best things to happen to BL in a long
time.
If you don't like what they post, don't read it, it's what I do with
most of your posts
Relax, sit back, enjoy a beer, live's to short.
Maxx
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| | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | May 9, 2014 13:12 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 101 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| | (Cancelled) |
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | misbi | | Posted: | May 9, 2014 13:26 | | Subject: | Re: Please Bandaid Maxx's Mouthpiece | | Viewed: | 71 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
Try it. The sky won't fall.
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| | | | | Author: | popsicle | | Posted: | May 9, 2014 13:08 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 72 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| | (Cancelled) |
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| | | | | Author: | calebfishn | | Posted: | May 9, 2014 13:37 | | Subject: | Re: Please Ban Mouthpiece Accounts | | Viewed: | 64 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | Please revise or interpret the ToS to prohibit non-buying and non-selling accounts
set up solely for supposedly representing the interests of a group of existing
BL members.
If members have anything important to say, they should man up and say it under
their member name. Doing so makes every member more accountable for what they
say. By allowing these mouthpiece PACs, members can at least partially shield
themselves from accountability for the interests and positions the mouthpiece
account advances. Thus, they can promote unpopular or controversial issues without
being held directly responsible for doing so.
Furthermore, allowing these mouthpiece accounts sets a bad precedent and, if
no action is taken, will encourage others to do the same. Mouthpiece accounts
that do no actual buying and selling themselves and exist solely for posting
in the forum will only make the Forum a more politicized and contentious place
for all, and largely without the personal accountability that would result if
an individual member posted in their own name as opposed to some group mouthpiece.
Thor
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I agree that this is weird.
I am not going to vote on the suggestion, because it is premature to issue a
ban on mouthpiece accounts.
I don't mind a group of sellers, or buyers getting together to work on shared
interests. But I am not comfortable with people setting up a separate bricklink
account for this purpose. It does not seem to me that it is good for the community.
It could lead to factiousness, party-spirit, and divisiveness.
Why can't someone just post under his or her own account, i.e. "A bunch of
the Canadian sellers were discussing this and we think...."
I also am not comfortable with the whole idea of "key sellers" which implies
that some people's ideas have more validity than others, or should get more
attention based on store size or sales. Surely, the validity of an idea must
be based on its appeal to reason, and what is best for all of the Bricklink community.
But if this sort of thing takes off, let me know where to sign up for the Canadian
Bloc. I need to get my voice heard too! (Just joking!)
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| | | | | | | Author: | Pokernut | | Posted: | May 9, 2014 17:43 | | Subject: | Re: Please Ban Mouthpiece Accounts | | Viewed: | 60 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| Having read the threads regarding the key sellers etc I just wonder what is going
through peoples heads.
I thought that BL was a place for anyone to buy and sell Lego. For ANYONE to
buy and sell Lego.
In Suggestions, calebfishn writes:
| | I don't mind a group of sellers, or buyers getting together to work on shared
interests.
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I agree with that point....providing they do it in private. If these stores want
to discuss how they can improve their operations then go for it.
| | But I am not comfortable with people setting up a separate bricklink
account for this purpose.
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Hear Hear. This is a really bad way to go about things and does nobody any good
as can be seen by some of the thoughts that have been aired.
| | I also am not comfortable with the whole idea of "key sellers" which implies
that some people's ideas have more validity than others, or should get more
attention based on store size or sales.
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Terrific point.
Just because " 15 friends and I account for 25% of BL sales, and we WANT or NEED
or Require XYZ to happen or we will do ABC " is imho bull****. Forming little
cliches to bend things in your direction is just so reminiscent of the past.
Every seller and buyer for that matter is just as impotant. Because these stores
choose to employ a spokesperson should NOT give them anymore say than anyone
else. Besides I dont think the owner of BL will take any bull**** from anyone.
It is his to do with as he wishes.
I think that the key stores/feature stores indications on this site are a bit
outdated, and unecessary. I mean...does it affect your sales all that much? (
will never know personally as I wont ever be there ). I dont know but those stores
there wont ever get me as a buyer.
On a seperate note...Lego watch this site and I am sure they read this forum
and we are all aware that Lego are looking at ways to reduce the secondary Lego
market...so who will Lego go after first...the stores with huge part inventories,,,especially
if they have new design HTF parts that are only in like 2 parts each in 1 ( $200
)sets and a store has 1000 for sale.
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| | | | | Author: | Made_In_Bricks | | Posted: | May 9, 2014 13:37 | | Subject: | Re: Please Ban Mouthpiece Accounts | | Viewed: | 70 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| I voted yes
if people want to make suggestions that are not open to the public they can directly
message themselves.
If they want other to weigh in, they can do so in the forum.
Unionize??? WTF? we aren't even employeed.
You can make these groups and serve a purpose without it being a new bricklink
account.
The German Key Sellers (I guess they only sell 1 part in a few colors) [p=x216]
can form their group, make their by laws, etc. etc. and present information as
such. In their by-laws they can apppoint a communications officer, such officer
can make their posts under this position and include it in their signature on
posts in the forum.
I will never understand German Logic, even after living there, I would have gone
for German Power Sellers personally.
close the account,
thanks,
Ken
Brick It Yourself
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| | | | | Author: | DagsBricks | | Posted: | May 9, 2014 13:45 | | Subject: | Re: Please Ban Mouthpiece Accounts | | Viewed: | 84 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| | Bye-bye fritzthecat. |
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| | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | May 9, 2014 14:54 | | Subject: | Re: Please Ban Mouthpiece Accounts | | Viewed: | 70 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | If members have anything important to say, they should man up and say it under
their member name. Doing so makes every member more accountable for what they
say. By allowing these mouthpiece PACs, members can at least partially shield
themselves from accountability for the interests and positions the mouthpiece
account advances.
|
Well, I don't think that is true. When a group account says A, it doesn't
mean none of its members say and are responsible for saying A, it means every
member says and is responsible for saying A. I'd rather read on the forum
that a group says A, than A, A, A, A, A, A, A. How the group manages their mandate
internally, is their own business (and that can be quite a hassle), but for the
outside world it must be so that every one of their members can be held accountable
for what is written.
German Key Sellers clearly has a list of stores they represent. Maybe they should
add usernames and links to stores/member accounts.
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| | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | May 9, 2014 15:06 | | Subject: | Re: Please Ban Mouthpiece Accounts | | Viewed: | 72 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | If members have anything important to say, they should man up and say it under
their member name. Doing so makes every member more accountable for what they
say. By allowing these mouthpiece PACs, members can at least partially shield
themselves from accountability for the interests and positions the mouthpiece
account advances.
|
Well, I don't think that is true. When a group account says A, it doesn't
mean none of its members say and are responsible for saying A, it means every
member says and is responsible for saying A. I'd rather read on the forum
that a group says A, than A, A, A, A, A, A, A. How the group manages their mandate
internally, is their own business (and that can be quite a hassle), but for the
outside world it must be so that every one of their members can be held accountable
for what is written.
German Key Sellers clearly has a list of stores they represent. Maybe they should
add usernames and links to stores/member accounts.
|
That is why I said "partially shield". And, if all members are fully accountable
for what the group says, does that mean if the group is banned for posting something
inappropriate then every individual member will also be banned? If not, then
the individuals are NOT fully accountable for what the group says.
Furthermore, from a practical point of view, how many more casual users of the
forum are going to know exactly who this group represents? It is easy to know
today because they told us. But I doubt this group will say exactly who they
represent each and every time they post in the future. Sure, you can see that
information in their AboutMe page. But how many casual readers are going to take
the time to actually read a poster's AboutMe page? We have a hard enough
time getting buyers to read shop terms; I doubt we can expect casual forum readers
to read the AboutMe pages of other posters. So, for all practical purposes, most
casual forum readers (not us regulars) are not going to know exactly who this
group represents and who should be held accountable for what they post. So yes,
the individual members CAN largely insulate themselves from what the group posts.
Thor
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | May 9, 2014 15:13 | | Subject: | Re: Please Ban Mouthpiece Accounts | | Viewed: | 51 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | If members have anything important to say, they should man up and say it under
their member name. Doing so makes every member more accountable for what they
say. By allowing these mouthpiece PACs, members can at least partially shield
themselves from accountability for the interests and positions the mouthpiece
account advances.
|
Well, I don't think that is true. When a group account says A, it doesn't
mean none of its members say and are responsible for saying A, it means every
member says and is responsible for saying A. I'd rather read on the forum
that a group says A, than A, A, A, A, A, A, A. How the group manages their mandate
internally, is their own business (and that can be quite a hassle), but for the
outside world it must be so that every one of their members can be held accountable
for what is written.
German Key Sellers clearly has a list of stores they represent. Maybe they should
add usernames and links to stores/member accounts.
|
That is why I said "partially shield". And, if all members are fully accountable
for what the group says, does that mean if the group is banned for posting something
inappropriate then every individual member will also be banned? If not, then
the individuals are NOT fully accountable for what the group says.
Furthermore, from a practical point of view, how many more casual users of the
forum are going to know exactly who this group represents? It is easy to know
today because they told us. But I doubt this group will say exactly who they
represent each and every time they post in the future. Sure, you can see that
information in their AboutMe page. But how many casual readers are going to take
the time to actually read a poster's AboutMe page? We have a hard enough
time getting buyers to read shop terms; I doubt we can expect casual forum readers
to read the AboutMe pages of other posters. So, for all practical purposes, most
casual forum readers (not us regulars) are not going to know exactly who this
group represents and who should be held accountable for what they post. So yes,
the individual members CAN largely insulate themselves from what the group posts.
Thor
|
Well.. yes, I agree with that line of reasoning and so even though it sounds
a bit extreme, all of them should be banned. But anyway, such accounts should
limit posts to business matters and that's also what german key sellers seems
to intend. Posting suggestions, saying yes or no to suggestions. For them to
go into some casual conversation or end up in a flame war would be really awkward.
I'm aware there's no hard line there, but I think things will be alright.
If I'm wrong then yes, it should be banned. For now, I expect it'll be
used discretely.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | May 9, 2014 15:20 | | Subject: | Re: Please Ban Mouthpiece Accounts | | Viewed: | 59 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | Posting suggestions, saying yes or no to suggestions.
|
If the group account will vote on suggestions, that means the members of that
group now have more votes than everyone else. For example, these 12 sellers can
now cast 13 votes for or against a suggestion. Or a group composed of 2 members
can now have 3 votes. That does not seem very fair or democratic.
While I understand that the number of votes for or against a suggestion are not
determinative, they still do have SOME influence on SOME suggestions.
Thor
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Brettj666 | | Posted: | May 9, 2014 15:35 | | Subject: | Re: Please Ban Mouthpiece Accounts | | Viewed: | 48 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | Posting suggestions, saying yes or no to suggestions.
|
If the group account will vote on suggestions, that means the members of that
group now have more votes than everyone else. For example, these 12 sellers can
now cast 13 votes for or against a suggestion. Or a group composed of 2 members
can now have 3 votes. That does not seem very fair or democratic.
While I understand that the number of votes for or against a suggestion are not
determinative, they still do have SOME influence on SOME suggestions.
Thor
|
Just thinking outside the box here, but why not just ask someone official if
this is allowed.
If it was allowed, your suggestion will be moot, it will remain despite the protestation
If it was not allowed, your suggestion would be moot, it would be removed regardless
of the suggestion.
At this time, it's hard to imagine that Bricklink has engaged many people
(users) on their changes and if this German consortium have to ensure that Bricklink
keeps up with laws/regulations in Germany or have to adjust to non-compliance,
maybe they just want that voice.
If they aren't buyers or sellers, transactionally they are neutral..
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | eileenkeeney | | Posted: | May 9, 2014 15:41 | | Subject: | Re: Please Ban Mouthpiece Accounts | | Viewed: | 55 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | Posting suggestions, saying yes or no to suggestions.
|
If the group account will vote on suggestions, that means the members of that
group now have more votes than everyone else. For example, these 12 sellers can
now cast 13 votes for or against a suggestion. Or a group composed of 2 members
can now have 3 votes. That does not seem very fair or democratic.
While I understand that the number of votes for or against a suggestion are not
determinative, they still do have SOME influence on SOME suggestions.
Thor
|
Yes,
But not because they should get that extra vote, but because it is so trivial
that it is not worth the trouble to prevent.
An ideal system could set up a type of account that did not have voting power.
If this was really a democracy, and voting power had more than a very trivial
amount of impact, this might be worth the effort.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | May 9, 2014 15:55 | | Subject: | Re: Please Ban Mouthpiece Accounts | | Viewed: | 51 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, eileenkeeney writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | Posting suggestions, saying yes or no to suggestions.
|
If the group account will vote on suggestions, that means the members of that
group now have more votes than everyone else. For example, these 12 sellers can
now cast 13 votes for or against a suggestion. Or a group composed of 2 members
can now have 3 votes. That does not seem very fair or democratic.
While I understand that the number of votes for or against a suggestion are not
determinative, they still do have SOME influence on SOME suggestions.
Thor
|
Yes,
But not because they should get that extra vote, but because it is so trivial
that it is not worth the trouble to prevent.
|
Where would you draw the line between trivial and non-trivial? 15 votes for 12
members? 50 votes for 12 members? 3 votes for 2 members? 2 votes for 1 member?
One vote for one member is a nice easy clean line, even if the votes don't
matter some of the time. Because sometimes votes do matter.
Thor
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | eileenkeeney | | Posted: | May 9, 2014 16:43 | | Subject: | Re: Please Ban Mouthpiece Accounts | | Viewed: | 50 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, eileenkeeney writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | Posting suggestions, saying yes or no to suggestions.
|
If the group account will vote on suggestions, that means the members of that
group now have more votes than everyone else. For example, these 12 sellers can
now cast 13 votes for or against a suggestion. Or a group composed of 2 members
can now have 3 votes. That does not seem very fair or democratic.
While I understand that the number of votes for or against a suggestion are not
determinative, they still do have SOME influence on SOME suggestions.
Thor
|
Yes,
But not because they should get that extra vote, but because it is so trivial
that it is not worth the trouble to prevent.
|
Where would you draw the line between trivial and non-trivial? 15 votes for 12
members? 50 votes for 12 members? 3 votes for 2 members? 2 votes for 1 member?
One vote for one member is a nice easy clean line, even if the votes don't
matter some of the time. Because sometimes votes do matter.
Thor
|
Sometimes something is so far over the line, that I really don't need to
care about where exactly to draw the line.
Yawn... Soooo not worth it!
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | wbroshea | | Posted: | May 9, 2014 15:31 | | Subject: | Re: Please Ban Mouthpiece Accounts | | Viewed: | 50 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | If members have anything important to say, they should man up and say it under
their member name. Doing so makes every member more accountable for what they
say. By allowing these mouthpiece PACs, members can at least partially shield
themselves from accountability for the interests and positions the mouthpiece
account advances.
|
Well, I don't think that is true. When a group account says A, it doesn't
mean none of its members say and are responsible for saying A, it means every
member says and is responsible for saying A. I'd rather read on the forum
that a group says A, than A, A, A, A, A, A, A. How the group manages their mandate
internally, is their own business (and that can be quite a hassle), but for the
outside world it must be so that every one of their members can be held accountable
for what is written.
German Key Sellers clearly has a list of stores they represent. Maybe they should
add usernames and links to stores/member accounts.
|
That is why I said "partially shield". And, if all members are fully accountable
for what the group says, does that mean if the group is banned for posting something
inappropriate then every individual member will also be banned? If not, then
the individuals are NOT fully accountable for what the group says.
Furthermore, from a practical point of view, how many more casual users of the
forum are going to know exactly who this group represents? It is easy to know
today because they told us. But I doubt this group will say exactly who they
represent each and every time they post in the future. Sure, you can see that
information in their AboutMe page. But how many casual readers are going to take
the time to actually read a poster's AboutMe page? We have a hard enough
time getting buyers to read shop terms; I doubt we can expect casual forum readers
to read the AboutMe pages of other posters. So, for all practical purposes, most
casual forum readers (not us regulars) are not going to know exactly who this
group represents and who should be held accountable for what they post. So yes,
the individual members CAN largely insulate themselves from what the group posts.
Thor
|
I agree with this line, unfortunately how do you regulate it? Change the ToS
sure, but if the account spokeperson doesn't state we represent so and so
then how can bricklink tell? How many accounts have zero feedback and zero transactions.
I would guess quite a few.
I would suspect simply stating that all represented are fully responsible for
anything the account says is probably sufficient to minimize the use of these
accounts assuming that stiff penalties can follow. Whats the likelihood you
can get more than a small handful of people to agree on everything all of the
time. Just a thought
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | May 9, 2014 15:40 | | Subject: | Re: Please Ban Mouthpiece Accounts | | Viewed: | 34 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, wbroshea writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | If members have anything important to say, they should man up and say it under
their member name. Doing so makes every member more accountable for what they
say. By allowing these mouthpiece PACs, members can at least partially shield
themselves from accountability for the interests and positions the mouthpiece
account advances.
|
Well, I don't think that is true. When a group account says A, it doesn't
mean none of its members say and are responsible for saying A, it means every
member says and is responsible for saying A. I'd rather read on the forum
that a group says A, than A, A, A, A, A, A, A. How the group manages their mandate
internally, is their own business (and that can be quite a hassle), but for the
outside world it must be so that every one of their members can be held accountable
for what is written.
German Key Sellers clearly has a list of stores they represent. Maybe they should
add usernames and links to stores/member accounts.
|
That is why I said "partially shield". And, if all members are fully accountable
for what the group says, does that mean if the group is banned for posting something
inappropriate then every individual member will also be banned? If not, then
the individuals are NOT fully accountable for what the group says.
Furthermore, from a practical point of view, how many more casual users of the
forum are going to know exactly who this group represents? It is easy to know
today because they told us. But I doubt this group will say exactly who they
represent each and every time they post in the future. Sure, you can see that
information in their AboutMe page. But how many casual readers are going to take
the time to actually read a poster's AboutMe page? We have a hard enough
time getting buyers to read shop terms; I doubt we can expect casual forum readers
to read the AboutMe pages of other posters. So, for all practical purposes, most
casual forum readers (not us regulars) are not going to know exactly who this
group represents and who should be held accountable for what they post. So yes,
the individual members CAN largely insulate themselves from what the group posts.
Thor
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I agree with this line, unfortunately how do you regulate it? Change the ToS
sure, but if the account spokeperson doesn't state we represent so and so
then how can bricklink tell? How many accounts have zero feedback and zero transactions.
I would guess quite a few.
I would suspect simply stating that all represented are fully responsible for
anything the account says is probably sufficient to minimize the use of these
accounts assuming that stiff penalties can follow. Whats the likelihood you
can get more than a small handful of people to agree on everything all of the
time. Just a thought
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If they are a zero feedback ID and don't say which sellers they represent,
then their opinions are those of someone with no experience of BL, and can probably
be ignored for the most part if not backed up by real users.
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| | | | | Author: | enig | | Posted: | May 9, 2014 15:35 | | Subject: | Re: Please Ban Mouthpiece Accounts | | Viewed: | 71 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | Please revise or interpret the ToS to prohibit non-buying and non-selling accounts
set up solely for supposedly representing the interests of a group of existing
BL members.
If members have anything important to say, they should man up and say it under
their member name. Doing so makes every member more accountable for what they
say. By allowing these mouthpiece PACs, members can at least partially shield
themselves from accountability for the interests and positions the mouthpiece
account advances. Thus, they can promote unpopular or controversial issues without
being held directly responsible for doing so.
Furthermore, allowing these mouthpiece accounts sets a bad precedent and, if
no action is taken, will encourage others to do the same. Mouthpiece accounts
that do no actual buying and selling themselves and exist solely for posting
in the forum will only make the Forum a more politicized and contentious place
for all, and largely without the personal accountability that would result if
an individual member posted in their own name as opposed to some group mouthpiece.
Thor
|
So you are saying that..
* One is required to buy or sell, to be granted the 'privilege' of posting
in the forum
* Sellers represented by GermanKeySeller account are cowards (you suggested
for them to man-up). You realize this can be received as a direct insult dont
you.
* You are also implying that 'they' will avoid getting held accountable
for what they, as a group, will say. All I can say is that they are not of your
type.
* A mouthpiece should be banned. This, I completely agree with.
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| | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | May 9, 2014 15:52 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 52 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| | (Cancelled) |
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | enig | | Posted: | May 9, 2014 16:33 | | Subject: | Re: Please Ban Mouthpiece Accounts | | Viewed: | 55 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, enig twists and distorts:
|
I meant that post more of a rhetorical one, as I grew comfortably accustomed
of you ignoring most of my posts lately. But since you replied..
| | Any time you start off your post with "So you are saying that..." it almost always
is NOT what I am saying.
|
Yeah right..
| | It is what you want me to say so you can then jump all over me for what I did not say.
|
I dont want you to say anything, to be perfectly honest. As for jumping all over
you - if by that you mean 'trying to show that your points dont make sense',
then why are you giving 'us' so much ammunition?
| | This post of yours is no exception. I refuse to take the bait. You are not here for a civil respectful discussion of this issue. Your last comment proves that.
Thor
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I dont know Thor, I failed to belittle all the GermanKeySellers sellers at once
by encouraging for all of them to 'man up' and to 'not evade personal
accountability', unlike you did. We have also seen just how you are willing
to keep discussion civilized and being respectful to others just hours ago:
http://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=819685
My comment you referred to proves exactly the opposite than what you are saying.
All I want is for the forum to be civilized again. For proof, check the link
few lines above.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | May 9, 2014 16:39 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 62 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| | (Cancelled) |
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| | | | | Author: | dee6128 | | Posted: | May 9, 2014 16:52 | | Subject: | Re: Please Ban Mouthpiece Accounts | | Viewed: | 45 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| I voted yes. I think it's cowardly to make these fake accounts. It's
simple. 0 feedback members can't post in the forum unless verified in some
way.
In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | Please revise or interpret the ToS to prohibit non-buying and non-selling accounts
set up solely for supposedly representing the interests of a group of existing
BL members.
If members have anything important to say, they should man up and say it under
their member name. Doing so makes every member more accountable for what they
say. By allowing these mouthpiece PACs, members can at least partially shield
themselves from accountability for the interests and positions the mouthpiece
account advances. Thus, they can promote unpopular or controversial issues without
being held directly responsible for doing so.
Furthermore, allowing these mouthpiece accounts sets a bad precedent and, if
no action is taken, will encourage others to do the same. Mouthpiece accounts
that do no actual buying and selling themselves and exist solely for posting
in the forum will only make the Forum a more politicized and contentious place
for all, and largely without the personal accountability that would result if
an individual member posted in their own name as opposed to some group mouthpiece.
Thor
|
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| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | May 9, 2014 16:53 | | Subject: | Re: Please Ban Mouthpiece Accounts | | Viewed: | 56 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, dee6128 writes:
| | I voted yes. I think it's cowardly to make these fake accounts. It's
simple. 0 feedback members can't post in the forum unless verified in some
way.
|
I have no problem with that, new users sometimes have problems and they should
be allowed to ask here. But if a new user claims to have experience, then it
is obviously a duplicate account.
| |
In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | Please revise or interpret the ToS to prohibit non-buying and non-selling accounts
set up solely for supposedly representing the interests of a group of existing
BL members.
If members have anything important to say, they should man up and say it under
their member name. Doing so makes every member more accountable for what they
say. By allowing these mouthpiece PACs, members can at least partially shield
themselves from accountability for the interests and positions the mouthpiece
account advances. Thus, they can promote unpopular or controversial issues without
being held directly responsible for doing so.
Furthermore, allowing these mouthpiece accounts sets a bad precedent and, if
no action is taken, will encourage others to do the same. Mouthpiece accounts
that do no actual buying and selling themselves and exist solely for posting
in the forum will only make the Forum a more politicized and contentious place
for all, and largely without the personal accountability that would result if
an individual member posted in their own name as opposed to some group mouthpiece.
Thor
|
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | dee6128 | | Posted: | May 9, 2014 17:02 | | Subject: | Re: Please Ban Mouthpiece Accounts | | Viewed: | 56 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| I don't understand your last statement but some kind of verification is needed
on this site. It could also possibly stop these fake stores from setting up.
I've no idea how this would work but something is needed. I love the people
who comment " ignore and move on" etc or " it's not worth my time". Why
even bother posting? It's obviously worth Fosters and my time. Don't
bother posting and act on your own words
In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | In Suggestions, dee6128 writes:
| | I voted yes. I think it's cowardly to make these fake accounts. It's
simple. 0 feedback members can't post in the forum unless verified in some
way.
|
I have no problem with that, new users sometimes have problems and they should
be allowed to ask here. But if a new user claims to have experience, then it
is obviously a duplicate account.
| |
In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | Please revise or interpret the ToS to prohibit non-buying and non-selling accounts
set up solely for supposedly representing the interests of a group of existing
BL members.
If members have anything important to say, they should man up and say it under
their member name. Doing so makes every member more accountable for what they
say. By allowing these mouthpiece PACs, members can at least partially shield
themselves from accountability for the interests and positions the mouthpiece
account advances. Thus, they can promote unpopular or controversial issues without
being held directly responsible for doing so.
Furthermore, allowing these mouthpiece accounts sets a bad precedent and, if
no action is taken, will encourage others to do the same. Mouthpiece accounts
that do no actual buying and selling themselves and exist solely for posting
in the forum will only make the Forum a more politicized and contentious place
for all, and largely without the personal accountability that would result if
an individual member posted in their own name as opposed to some group mouthpiece.
Thor
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | May 9, 2014 17:06 | | Subject: | Re: Please Ban Mouthpiece Accounts | | Viewed: | 38 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, dee6128 writes:
| | I don't understand your last statement but some kind of verification is needed
on this site. It could also possibly stop these fake stores from setting up.
|
My last sentence was "But if a new user claims to have experience, then it
is obviously a duplicate account."
Meaning, if someone had zero feedback and had registered today, then if they
claim to have been a user for X years and had sold Y orders, then they are telling
lies or have set up a duplicate / second account.
I don't think BL will ever be able to get rid of fake stores (stopping new
ones stops genuine new sellers too), but they will be able to just remove them
as they are reported.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | dee6128 | | Posted: | May 9, 2014 17:08 | | Subject: | Re: Please Ban Mouthpiece Accounts | | Viewed: | 57 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| Ok. I understand. Thanks for the clarification
In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | In Suggestions, dee6128 writes:
| | I don't understand your last statement but some kind of verification is needed
on this site. It could also possibly stop these fake stores from setting up.
|
My last sentence was "But if a new user claims to have experience, then it
is obviously a duplicate account."
Meaning, if someone had zero feedback and had registered today, then if they
claim to have been a user for X years and had sold Y orders, then they are telling
lies or have set up a duplicate / second account.
I don't think BL will ever be able to get rid of fake stores (stopping new
ones stops genuine new sellers too), but they will be able to just remove them
as they are reported.
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