Redisplay Messages: Compact | Brief | All | Full Show Messages: All | Without Replies| Author: | popsicle  | | Posted: | Mar 21, 2020 15:04 | | Subject: | Re: Fix the NPB and Cancellation Process | | Viewed: | 71 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
| In Suggestions, waltzking writes:
| | I think BrickLink has a broken order process now due to the ever changing online
buying experience. For me I have seen an influx of buyers since the LEGO takeover
of BL, most new, but many clearly aware of the site though having limited use
of it in the past.
These buyers are often of the mindset that they are the ones calling the shots
on cancellations, payment time frames, etc. all while having no regard for the
BL or my store terms regarding such. Anything from unilateral ability to
cancel, expectations of free shipping, allowance to pay 10-days after ordering,
etc. and just the general "buyer rules" attitude that other selling sites (need
I name them?) have allowed buyers to abuse sellers with. These other sites have
taken some steps to protect sellers and buyer alike, but BL has fallen behind
the times.
Granted, these buyers are often new to BL which has a major learning curve, but
when you sell the exact same item 3 times in one week, and all 3 buyers want
to cancel after accurate shipping is invoiced for, it gets annoying. Why not
ask for a quote? And why only ask to cancel after days of the invoice being
sent? This and the increase in NPB buyers tying up stock have left me convinced
payment time-frame allowances need to be changed. The following is my view of
the changes this site needs to consider to move forward in a all-parties friendly
way:
Suggested Changes
1a: NPB should be changed to allowable to be filed 3-days from invoice (not
the order date). This would be similar to other online selling sites. Not
auto-started, but optional so situations and agreements allowing additions, extended
payment, etc. can all still run as before.
1b: NPB should be allowed to complete after 7-days from the invoice date (4
days of being opened). 14 days (21 if buyer responds) is a ludicrous amount
of time to send payment or tie up a sellers stock. 7-days is actually really
long, but much better than 14-21.
Most all decent buyers pay well before 3-days, and a NPB started is simply a
reminder to pay as it cannot be completed unless the buyer fails to ever pay.
So I can only see this as a positive change making bad situations end sooner
than later and keeping stock available on the marketplace.
2: Additionally I would suggest that a feature be added to protect sellers
WHILE allowing unconditional buyer requested cancellations. However, if
a cancellation is buyer requested the buyer should not be allowed to leave a
review (or an auto-positive given by default), and they should by default be
given a feedback showing an "Order Was Canceled By Buyer" message with a neutral
rating by default. Like an NPB's three-times-and-you're-out policy,
the buyer cancel option should be limited to 2, maybe 3 in a 6-month period,
or something reasonable. This allows buyers a true out when needed, and protects
the seller who after a customer gets pushy or rude the ability to safely allow
cancellation (when the buyer initiates) without needing the NPB and now current
2-3 weeks to prevent an unwarranted negative feedback. As is the system turns
good sellers into captive sellers, needing a NPB to save them from nightmare
feedback, but at the extremely high cost of wasted time and tying up their items
for weeks. No buyer needs 7, 14 or 21 days to pay and should not be granted
an ability to push payment back this far.
The current system for cancellations and NPB simply needs reformed. Buyers need
to be able to cancel in select situations such as a pushy seller trying to gouge
them on handling/shipping or holding the order hostage refusing to cancel, a
threat of pay or get an NPB. Sellers likewise need protection from the long
tied up inventory, or negative despite granting buyer an unwarranted cancellation.
The above should reduce 90% of all problem orders to being resolved in days,
not weeks, and all parties moving on largely unaffected. Bad sellers and buyers
will still get weeded out, and good ones will thrive.
|
Well thought-out, Jonathan.
Voted yes. Not that I expect the needle to be moved in doing so, but as a show
of support. I think most are aware of the issue's persistence here, and the
need for adjustments.
Though I've never used any of these corrective options available on both
sides of a transaction, I've seen time and time again, the frustration the
current system generates for those that do use it, especially for the selling-side.
-Cory
|
 |
| Author: | waltzking | | Posted: | Mar 21, 2020 14:23 | | Subject: | Re: Fix the NPB and Cancellation Process | | Viewed: | 51 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
| In Suggestions, Adjour writes:
| | In Suggestions, cosmicray writes:
| | In Suggestions, waltzking writes:
| | I think BrickLink has a broken order process now due to the ever changing online
buying experience. For me I have seen an influx of buyers since the LEGO takeover
of BL, most new, but many clearly aware of the site though having limited use
of it in the past.
|
#1a and #1b have been suggested in the past, to no effect. The best way to stop
that problem is to lock your store down, so that no order can be created without
IC. That stops the problem cold. People wanting to cancel an order rarely happens
after they have completed payment.
Nita Rae
|
Yeah this x 10000
I love my new buyers, I have not had issues with them, my last NPB was a 200
+ feedback person. Before that I can't recall, because it was year ago at
least. I get many many 1 and 0 buyers and I haven't had what you are talking
about happen at all.
Turn on IC for small orders and stop dealing with this. There is no need to.
|
Glad your experience has been mostly positive. I too love new buyers, always
helping them through the learning curve here when possible. Just because you
haven't had the experience we have had (and others I have talked to recently
as well) doesn't make me dislike new buyers as your above statement would
imply. We love any customer who is not a pin to deal with...which is still 99%
of the time.
You probably don't sell the same items I do so have a very different buyer
base ordering from you. 9 of 10 newer buyers are indeed quick to pay and everything
is super. But it only takes a few orders of hot items, and large quantities
to net a largely negative experience when having to go through the NPB process.
Happy you haven't had them, but I have had 5 the last month alone.
IC BTW won't fix the issue, I actually do have it, but as always allow buyers
to opt for manual invoice as it is ALWAYS cheaper, and smart buyers know that.
And large orders are the ones we cannot do IC on and are the problem orders
99/100 times. So again, won't solve the issue. Parts buyers are generally
very prompt to pay as they have projects they NEED them for so delaying only
hurts them too. Set buyers though can easily change their minds and want something
different.
A good buyer experience like you have never leads to NPB, so the length of allowed
payment time in your case makes no difference. The sellers dealing with NPB's
are the ones who have voice to call for action here, and really, 3-days or a
week is plenty time to pay for an item ordered. I've been buying and selling
for 15-years here now (to your 4) and times were very different back then. Modern
online shopping has changes much for the better, but BL is left in the dark ages
on timeliness for payment/cancellation/NPB. We used to get about 20% of orders
paid with money orders in the day, and that took a week minimum for turnaround
times. Now it is 1 in 1000 as money order with most all being PayPal. Speed
of the process has picked up, and payment terms need to reflect the same as a
general rule.
Again, good buyers pay fast, so 3-days isn't going to hurt them. Bad
or no-show buyers are the problem, and once you have them getting inventory back
in shop is of utmost importance. Because really, I have never had a buyer pay
after NPB except once when the buyer simply had an emergency that called him
away for an extended time. By 1-week it is obvious if payment will ever be sent
or not. So why make sellers wait 7-14 more days to relist items? I do hope
the powers that be do reconsider correcting this aspect of the sales process
here. We have seen progress with IC but not enough just yet for store like ours
who cannot create a IC system fitting to all aspects of our diversified sales.
Jonathan
|
|
| Author: | Adjour | | Posted: | Mar 21, 2020 11:45 | | Subject: | Re: Fix the NPB and Cancellation Process | | Viewed: | 47 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
| In Suggestions, cosmicray writes:
| | In Suggestions, waltzking writes:
| | I think BrickLink has a broken order process now due to the ever changing online
buying experience. For me I have seen an influx of buyers since the LEGO takeover
of BL, most new, but many clearly aware of the site though having limited use
of it in the past.
|
#1a and #1b have been suggested in the past, to no effect. The best way to stop
that problem is to lock your store down, so that no order can be created without
IC. That stops the problem cold. People wanting to cancel an order rarely happens
after they have completed payment.
Nita Rae
|
Yeah this x 10000
I love my new buyers, I have not had issues with them, my last NPB was a 200
+ feedback person. Before that I can't recall, because it was year ago at
least. I get many many 1 and 0 buyers and I haven't had what you are talking
about happen at all.
Turn on IC for small orders and stop dealing with this. There is no need to.
|
|
| Author: | cosmicray | | Posted: | Mar 21, 2020 10:40 | | Subject: | Re: Fix the NPB and Cancellation Process | | Viewed: | 43 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
| In Suggestions, waltzking writes:
| | I think BrickLink has a broken order process now due to the ever changing online
buying experience. For me I have seen an influx of buyers since the LEGO takeover
of BL, most new, but many clearly aware of the site though having limited use
of it in the past.
|
#1a and #1b have been suggested in the past, to no effect. The best way to stop
that problem is to lock your store down, so that no order can be created without
IC. That stops the problem cold. People wanting to cancel an order rarely happens
after they have completed payment.
Nita Rae
|
|
| Author: | HC | | Posted: | Mar 20, 2020 20:53 | | Subject: | Re: Fix the NPB and Cancellation Process | | Viewed: | 63 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
| hi,Jonathan
I totaly agree...these are very good suggestions!
lately i have an explosion of 0 feedbackers myself
ordering/not reading store terms
never reply on messages/reminders and most of them end up in NPB status,holding
my goods ''hostage'' for 8 + 7 = 15 days.
and one of them for 21 days because he replied [demanded cheap or free shipping]
[do not know if these newbies are children without permission or adults]
since the new shipping rules about shipping goods in enveloppes in Europe,
I have to cancel a lot of orders [which I offer buyers if the order value is
less then the shipping cost ..as service]
because almost nobody reads terms or shipping cost list anymore
they just order away
so I hope bricklink will considder your ideas
especialy the 3 day payment term,
because in europe we have IBAN/bank transfer also and auto checkout is not always
an option for us
regards,,Hans
|
|
| Author: | waltzking | | Posted: | Mar 20, 2020 18:55 | | Subject: | Fix the NPB and Cancellation Process | | Viewed: | 172 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | | Status: | Open | | Vote: | [Yes|No] | |
| I think BrickLink has a broken order process now due to the ever changing online
buying experience. For me I have seen an influx of buyers since the LEGO takeover
of BL, most new, but many clearly aware of the site though having limited use
of it in the past.
These buyers are often of the mindset that they are the ones calling the shots
on cancellations, payment time frames, etc. all while having no regard for the
BL or my store terms regarding such. Anything from unilateral ability to
cancel, expectations of free shipping, allowance to pay 10-days after ordering,
etc. and just the general "buyer rules" attitude that other selling sites (need
I name them?) have allowed buyers to abuse sellers with. These other sites have
taken some steps to protect sellers and buyer alike, but BL has fallen behind
the times.
Granted, these buyers are often new to BL which has a major learning curve, but
when you sell the exact same item 3 times in one week, and all 3 buyers want
to cancel after accurate shipping is invoiced for, it gets annoying. Why not
ask for a quote? And why only ask to cancel after days of the invoice being
sent? This and the increase in NPB buyers tying up stock have left me convinced
payment time-frame allowances need to be changed. The following is my view of
the changes this site needs to consider to move forward in a all-parties friendly
way:
Suggested Changes
1a: NPB should be changed to allowable to be filed 3-days from invoice (not
the order date). This would be similar to other online selling sites. Not
auto-started, but optional so situations and agreements allowing additions, extended
payment, etc. can all still run as before.
1b: NPB should be allowed to complete after 7-days from the invoice date (4
days of being opened). 14 days (21 if buyer responds) is a ludicrous amount
of time to send payment or tie up a sellers stock. 7-days is actually really
long, but much better than 14-21.
Most all decent buyers pay well before 3-days, and a NPB started is simply a
reminder to pay as it cannot be completed unless the buyer fails to ever pay.
So I can only see this as a positive change making bad situations end sooner
than later and keeping stock available on the marketplace.
2: Additionally I would suggest that a feature be added to protect sellers
WHILE allowing unconditional buyer requested cancellations. However, if
a cancellation is buyer requested the buyer should not be allowed to leave a
review (or an auto-positive given by default), and they should by default be
given a feedback showing an "Order Was Canceled By Buyer" message with a neutral
rating by default. Like an NPB's three-times-and-you're-out policy,
the buyer cancel option should be limited to 2, maybe 3 in a 6-month period,
or something reasonable. This allows buyers a true out when needed, and protects
the seller who after a customer gets pushy or rude the ability to safely allow
cancellation (when the buyer initiates) without needing the NPB and now current
2-3 weeks to prevent an unwarranted negative feedback. As is the system turns
good sellers into captive sellers, needing a NPB to save them from nightmare
feedback, but at the extremely high cost of wasted time and tying up their items
for weeks. No buyer needs 7, 14 or 21 days to pay and should not be granted
an ability to push payment back this far.
The current system for cancellations and NPB simply needs reformed. Buyers need
to be able to cancel in select situations such as a pushy seller trying to gouge
them on handling/shipping or holding the order hostage refusing to cancel, a
threat of pay or get an NPB. Sellers likewise need protection from the long
tied up inventory, or negative despite granting buyer an unwarranted cancellation.
The above should reduce 90% of all problem orders to being resolved in days,
not weeks, and all parties moving on largely unaffected. Bad sellers and buyers
will still get weeded out, and good ones will thrive.
Thanks for considering,
Jonathan
|
|
| Author: | StormChaser | | Posted: | Mar 18, 2020 13:13 | | Subject: | Re: Decorated categories | | Viewed: | 53 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
| In Suggestions, athornberg writes:
| | Replace "decorated" categories with 2 new categories, "printed" and "with stickers".
|
This idea was tossed around between administrators (including Dan) in 2007/2008.
It was deemed at the time to be an interesting idea with some positives, but
ultimately not preferable.
Thirteen years later, I can't tell that anything's changed.
|
| Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Mar 18, 2020 12:06 | | Subject: | Re: Decorated categories | | Viewed: | 23 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
| In Suggestions, athornberg writes:
| | Replace "decorated" categories with 2 new categories, "printed" and "with stickers".
|
I think for now learning to use search terms would be easier than adding loads
of new categories.
|
| Author: | tonnic | | Posted: | Mar 18, 2020 11:57 | | Subject: | Re: Decorated categories | | Viewed: | 24 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
| In Suggestions, axaday writes:
| | In Suggestions, athornberg writes:
| | Replace "decorated" categories with 2 new categories, "printed" and "with stickers".
|
I think there are so many categories right now that they are very averse to creating
more. I'm doubtful that a suggestion that would add more than a dozen new
categories is going anywhere.
|
I would rather have more categories with less entries per categorie so for me
the suggestion would work.
Categories are more easily to be found than subcategories/entries or whatever
they are named.
|
| Author: | jennnifer | | Posted: | Mar 18, 2020 10:45 | | Subject: | Re: Decorated categories | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
| In Suggestions, athornberg writes:
| | Replace "decorated" categories with 2 new categories, "printed" and "with stickers".
|
You can achieve much the same thing by searching -sticker in the decorated category.
Jen
|
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